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Averaging 27 deaths a game, the all female team Vaevictis has been kicked from the LCL (theloadout.com)

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[–]Coziestpigeon2 2789 points2790 points  (0 children)

With 0 wins through the spring and summer splits, I'm kinda surprised they had to be kicked and didn't just fold.

There's no way performing like that can feel good.

[–]Iowapieak 4546 points4547 points  (11 children)

Riot Games Russia released a statement which says the roster had an “unacceptable level of competitiveness in a closed league” as Vaevictus failed to win a single game in both the Spring and Summer Splits last year.

Wait, this is a thing?

[–]Kalarrian 4042 points4043 points  (6 children)

It's not just losing every game, it's getting stomped every single game.

Most of their games ended with killscores around 25-2 and within 20 minutes.

[–][deleted] 4069 points4070 points  (5 children)

Oh , so just like S04 with forg1ven in LEC

[–]cjsc9079 643 points644 points  (0 children)

o snap

[–]NetSraC1306I hate this game so much 359 points360 points  (2 children)

Vaevetics do not expect to get picked up by world class teams tho

[–]SonOfRekkles 88 points89 points  (0 children)

oof

[–]Enyy 1409 points1410 points  (1 child)

average of 27 deaths per game, 10 more than the next highest in the league, and had the shortest average game duration in the LCL of 22 minutes 11 seconds.

and this is against a lot of off-meta picks.

[–]raikaria2 1201 points1202 points  (0 children)

And people clowning [And includes said clowning]

One team got called out for clowning so next time they played Veaviscus they won sub-15.

[–]Rimikokorone 294 points295 points  (0 children)

The lcs has the same thing. If a team places bottom two for a certain amount of splits (I think it's 4 out of last 6 maybe?) then they're subject to review for being kicked out.

[–]raikaria2 155 points156 points  (0 children)

Yes; it is; in all leagues.

Wonder if CLG will get kicked...

[–]ZXKeyr324XZESPAÑA 7711 points7712 points  (41 children)

Holy, those are some bad stats

[–]VickieLoL jinx series hype 501 points502 points  (5 children)

Some of these women are actual diamonds I believe... no wonder they are performing really bad at that level.

[–]SvensonIV 637 points638 points  (2 children)

Not to mention Diamond playing a different role than on stage.

[–]raikaria2 577 points578 points  (0 children)

Yep; 4 of them were support mains, the only one that wasn't was a Katarina onetrick.

[–]Mixed_not_swirledBring back old Morde 231 points232 points  (0 children)

Holy shit LOL that is a goddamn travesty

[–][deleted] 160 points161 points  (0 children)

I'm pretty sure that literally 3 of them are support/enchanter players and they're all diamond. Idk what the plan was here.

[–]TMystik 73 points74 points  (0 children)

i thought one or even two of them were plat, which breaks one of riot rules that you have to be at least ranked diamond 3 to even be eligeable to compete.

[–][deleted] 5882 points5883 points  (34 children)

The whole thing literally dented the LCL's reputation, like seriously why the fuck were they allowed to compete in the first place, they were literally a bunch of diamonds, i remember when this roster was first announced, some people already predicted that its gonna flop, yet you had some morons arguing that people are being sexist lol

[–]raikaria2 6235 points6236 points  (0 children)

It wasn't just 'a bunch of diamonds'.

It was 4 Support mains and a Katarina onetrick.

[–]TheDMWarrior 2926 points2927 points  (8 children)

some people already predicted that its gonna flop, yet you had some morons arguing that people are being sexist

you do understand that there's a difference between saying "they'll lose because they're Diamond" and "they'll lose because they're women" right? And how one should be viewed as fair criticism, whereas the other one is pretty sexist?

[–]VickieLoL jinx series hype 3194 points3195 points  (0 children)

This 100%. Even an all-male diamond team would have been destroyed at that level. Critiquing them for being diamond ain’t sexist.

[–][deleted]  (6 children)

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    [–]TheDMWarrior 421 points422 points  (3 children)

    Expecting someone to be bad solely because of their gender is also pretty sexist yeah. I understand that there haven't been many succesful female pros bar Remi and Mayumi, but that doesn't mean future pros can't be women - imagine approaching Geguri with the same attitude for example.

    [–][deleted]  (2 children)

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      [–]TheDMWarrior 357 points358 points  (0 children)

      And wouldn't you know it, that's exactly how it turned out.

      Confirmation bias at work.

      knowing the demographics of the game

      even if we assume that only 5% of League players are female (unlikely, but let's roll with it), that's still millions of women playing League. The chances of all of them being "just bad" are actually pretty low.

      I could make the same argument about UK players btw: For years, there were barely any, at times none relevant UK players in the LEC/LCS. If we narrow it down to English players, it gets even worse, as Alphari is Welsh. Does that mean all players that come from England just suck and we shouldn't give a rising English talent a chance, if they deserve it? Absolutely not.

      [–]PankoKing[M] 71 points72 points  (0 children)

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      [–]Lothric43 1140 points1141 points  (19 children)

      Well there were and are people being sexist. It’s all in where you direct your vitriol. The women are guiltless, the org is despicable for appropriating an important movement as a stunt for their own gain.

      People making egirl jokes and talking about their looks are being idiotic and sexist, it’s the org that should be criticized.

      [–]ZXKeyr324XZESPAÑA 1428 points1429 points  (2 children)

      Making a diamond team try to compete with challenger players, regardless of gender is stupid, this will only increase the common thought of "Women are bad at league lmao, just support and wanting e-boys buying them stuff"

      Its a bad move in every single way

      [–]SirRichardTheVast 247 points248 points  (0 children)

      You captured my feelings on it very well. Criticizing the fact that the org did this, saying that they aren't really a competitive team, even saying this is an embarassment for pro League - these are all valid observations, and should not be dismissed as sexist. But there were also a lot of people who used this as an excuse to make shitty, sexist comments.

      [–]Guylos 451 points452 points  (1 child)

      How are the players guiltless btw? Joining a team you know is going to be a joke because it is built around something that has nothing to do with gameplay (the player's gender) when you know you don't play at a pro-level and were only considered because of the first gameplay unrelated trait is hardly a legitimate cause.

      [–]Lothric43 254 points255 points  (0 children)

      Actually I suppose they would be at fault depending on how much knowledge they had of the org’s intent, but overall they shouldn’t be focused on for criticism over the org by any means. Who knows what their financial situation was anyway, everybody’s gotta find some way to make that bread. Im not going to go after someone that might have been struggling and really needed a break, though I can’t know if that was the case.

      Id rather not focus on them because basically all the criticism directed towards them rather than the org/team as a whole has ended up being pretty sexist as far as Ive seen. People set their principles aside every single day to make self-gains, Id rather attack the source of the problem.

      [–]PokeD2 Revert Azir R 113 points114 points  (0 children)

      The players are stupid for even agreeing to it, if anything it hurts the female scene

      [–]Randomcarrot 156 points157 points  (2 children)

      Is that being sexist though? I agree that it's idiotic but when the org chooses them based on something other than their abilities then what are people supposed to comment and by extension joke about?

      The org chose them because of their gender so therefore commentary on them is about their gender.

      The smart thing would have been if nobody gave them attention but I just don't see how the people making comments are sexists if you aren't going to label the org the same way.

      [–]Lothric43 22 points23 points  (0 children)

      What do you mean “if you aren’t going to label the org the same way”? My whole point is that the org is the one doing wrong, they appropriated a social movement for publicity and in effect reinforced sexist stereotypes.

      Do you think commentary on their gender is necessarily sexist or something? My whole point is that it’s a gender discussion, but there have been and are people doing it in very sexist ways by either trying to divorce gender from the conversation or directing their anger at the women.

      There have been people who don’t really offer any meaningful critique, but happily reinforce the stereotypes of “egirls” through this conversation. That behavior is sexist.

      [–]Latentk 34 points35 points  (1 child)

      You may misunderstand the point and that, ironically, is the point. The gender doesn't matter, whereas many folks will loudly shout that gender aways matters. We are talking about pro league and gender can and should be a distant conversation we have down the road.

      [–]Lothric43 32 points33 points  (0 children)

      Gender does matter though in the same way that our identities influence literally everything we do, there’s no getting around that. You haven’t really put together any argument as to why pro league and gender should be distant so you should probably do that.

      I think it’s challenging to aggressively try to attack the absence of women in professional esports, because the problem stems from the culture of video games. There are steps needed before we can feasibly put together a decent pro all-women team as long as there’s still this exclusionary culture around merely playing video games and gamers continue to become reactionary to any discussion around it.

      [–][deleted] 69 points70 points  (0 children)

      some people already predicted that its gonna flop, yet you had some morons arguing that people are being sexist lol

      The amount of hate those girls got was undeserved even for how badly they played and how badly the whole thing was managed. Normal analytics and hating women aren't mutually exclusive, they happen together all the time.

      [–]MiruwestBring Back 1966 points1967 points  (0 children)

      Least they have cool jackets.

      [–]SleepyLabrador 4907 points4908 points  (24 children)

      These ladies were so funny, I remember that once their opponents banned all support champions against them.

      [–]TyphoonFaxaiSurvivor 3213 points3214 points  (0 children)

      They got penalised (or warned?) for it, but that was the most respectful thing that happened to these girls. Most of them are support players in solo queue. Actually targeting supports against a team full of supports doesn't feel like the weirdest thing in the world to me. Then there was the team that got penalised (or warned?) for dragging the game out to just sit and shit on them (and that one I kinda get) so they turned it around and starting smashing the everloving shit out of the girls instead.

      Vega Squad took down their nexus in 13 minutes!

      It's hard to win a game in 13 minutes if you get a fantastic draft in ARAM. Fielding a roster that loses in 13 minutes in a pro game should warrant a public spanking for the management of the team.

      [–]TheGloriousEv0lution 823 points824 points  (0 children)

      I remember the Rammus top and Nami adc games too. They had no business playing but it's nice that some good came out of this with these hilarious games

      [–]syotokal 1440 points1441 points  (2 children)

      On a more positive note Likkrit is an owner of the team the that is replacing them. Glad to see him back in the league.

      [–]Mohikanis 400 points401 points  (1 child)

      I, for one, am surpirsed they actually included his team. They have some bad blood, is that really gonna be forgotten by both sides? Perhaps Likkrit has matured and will suck it up to earn money, but I won't be surprised to hear more drama from LCL regarding him/his team.

      [–]computo2000 85 points86 points  (0 children)

      I mean, if you were on this subreddit the past year, you'd suspect that kicking vaevictis came from a different mindset than the established one, perhaps different people altogether.

      [–][deleted] 2070 points2071 points  (0 children)

      Just making this team is an insult to them. Why would you make a team where the whole gimmick is gender....

      [–]Dezsire 4440 points4441 points  (0 children)

      I think that these "all female" teams are honestly the most sexist garbage i've seen in esport , if a girl (or anyone) is good enough to be competitive they should be giving a chance , but doing an all female team just for the sake of it and forcing it goes against the point .

      [–]Last_Snowbender Most toxic anivia main EUW 2199 points2200 points  (0 children)

      What a surprise. Putting 5 average players into the pro league won't work out, everyone knew that. This entire team was a fucking marketing stunt.

      Stop trying to force women in e-sports. If they're good, they get there. There's the female overwatch pro, so they do exist. But stop trying to force "diversity" because that shit is going to backfire. Like team siren wasn't enough of a shitshow already back then and hurt the reputation of every female ever playing this game.

      [–]ElaborateRuseman We'll be gucci 301 points302 points  (0 children)

      Took them long enough

      [–][deleted] 384 points385 points  (3 children)

      Anyone want to lamen terms this for me? I’ve never played this game before. How bad is 27 deaths for a team?

      Edit- damn. Thanks

      Edit 2- laymen’s terms**. Thank you u/wotintarn8ion

      [–]PedroBV stay chill or stay silent 576 points577 points  (0 children)

      In pro play is awful. You may see some matches where a team get 27 or close to 27 deaths but this kind of matches are very, very, VERY rare. This team averages 27.. It is their norm. It is really bad.

      [–]Mr_Schtiffles[CommandShockwave] (NA) 278 points279 points  (0 children)

      Generally speaking, dying to your opponent directly increases their strength, making it harder for your team to win. In professional play, one player can usually snowball out of control after only a few kills, so in this scenario every player on the enemy team would, on average, have enough kills to be totally unstoppable.

      [–]Rogue_Tomato 266 points267 points  (0 children)

      article literally says "10 more than the next highest". So it's pretty bad. They also have the shortest game time. Basically they get stomped every game.

      [–]ControlOnly ...... 958 points959 points  (12 children)

      I understand that esports is actually "male dominated" but no in the feminist way your thinking, because you basically only see guys on almost all esports scene.I'm fine with more women here, but if you try to do it like this, where you enforce the entire team to be female it falls apart.If there should be more females in the scene, then there already would have been.

      [–]Ap_Sona_Bot 1072 points1073 points  (3 children)

      It wasn't an attempt to be competitive at all. It was literally a publicity stunt because the owners were upset about something Riot Russia did.

      [–]ControlOnly ...... 126 points127 points  (2 children)

      What did they do?

      [–]rmcoo 456 points457 points  (0 children)

      They did not allow them to sell their spot past the deadline

      [–]deviant324 Best enchanter since 2017 287 points288 points  (3 children)

      The issue was that they didn't have enough (any? idk what their individual rankings are) players to make a competitive team.

      Their whole lineup only existed because they wanted to get out of the league last year but failed to sell their spot in time so they deliberately went in with what's basically a joke roster.

      Them being all female was part of their shitty joke in that sense, they could've gone with any other arbitrary characteristic and would've probably come up with an equally bad roster

      I think they wanted to be kicked intentionally, but they probably banked on it happenings sooner than this

      [–]ControlOnly ...... 95 points96 points  (2 children)

      So it was a joke/publicity stunt that went on for longer than they probably thought.Kinda sad, but is there a specific reason why they just chose to really do it as a joke?

      [–]deviant324 Best enchanter since 2017 70 points71 points  (1 child)

      I never quite got behind the reasoning myself, I think they tried to sell their spot until the last moment and ended up not having time/money/? to get an actual roster on board, that’d be my assumption anyway.

      I have no idea why they couldn’t just nope out of there, since paying virtually any money for players and whatever infrastructure they have seems like a waste unless they were facing fines from Riot for not competing.

      Any publicity is good publicity, but I don’t think you’d want your brand to be associated with this dumpsterfire

      [–]ControlOnly ...... 22 points23 points  (0 children)

      So they didn't have enough time or money and decided to go for this team as a fun publicity stunt that went slightly farther than they expected.

      [–][deleted] 118 points119 points  (0 children)

      This literally just does the opposite of what they’re trying to do. Imagine how discouraging as a female to watch the one female team in a League get fucking humiliated every game by male teams that aren’t even trying. That’s not progressive or helpful to increase the female playerbase at all...

      [–]TMystik 40 points41 points  (0 children)

      i doubt that they ever wanted to compete , as many have said this was all a publicity stunt, keep in mind that they were diamond at best and one of them was plat iirc, i'm 100% sure that if they actually wanted to make a real team they could succeed in at least some way, there are plenty of challenger females that could make a decent team out there, but vaevictus just wanted to be unique as in trashing the legitimacy of esports in russia and hurting the female scene(and any potential to grow it) too for money and publicity, really sad actually.

      [–]Sadarot 28 points29 points  (0 children)

      If they would have at least build a team of really high elo woman. But no they where diamond and offroal in most cases... Thats just stupid. They where never even close to a real team. The same elo on an all male team would have lead to a similar uproar.

      [–]memefull_meme 171 points172 points  (1 child)

      Honestly, what were they thinking when creating that team? The players, I mean. Pretty sure it was clear they'd be completely outmatched...

      [–]ulughen 382 points383 points  (0 children)

      Can't blame the players. They got their salary and promoted their streams.

      [–]computo2000 47 points48 points  (0 children)

      Likkrit is back on the scene, woah

      [–]Shorkan 267 points268 points  (22 children)

      Can anyone explain to me why there are (basically?) no females in pro play? I don't see a reason for people this young to not be able to compete because of gender issues (at least in Europe and America, don't know much about Asian culture) and I definitively don't see which gender genetic advantages could be in e-sports.

      [–]ElaborateRuseman We'll be gucci 982 points983 points  (0 children)

      There are very few women even in Challenger, and pros are a very small percentage of Challenger players. So it's mostly because there aren't a lot of women playing compared to men and those that do are most of the time not as passionate about the game to reach that level.

      There's probably issues with sexism for a woman trying to enter the scene but for one to even want to do that is extremely rare.

      [–][deleted] 466 points467 points  (2 children)

      I think it's about actually being interested in the game. Gaming is inherently more popular among males (even moreso in the West). So for 10 boys aspiring to be pros, there's 1 girl . Now given that a very tiny percent actually get picked up for teams and already low female playerbase, there haven't been female players better than males during scouting .

      There's also the culture of gaming houses which can be a problem with mixed genders in Asian countries and still a bit uncomfortable than what the pros are used to in the West.

      [–][deleted]  (1 child)

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        [–]ReganDryke Don't stare directly at me for too long.[M] -248 points-247 points  (0 children)

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        [–]Mixed_not_swirledBring back old Morde 170 points171 points  (0 children)

        Well the female playerbase to begin with is much smaller because for a long time gaming was just a boys club. Then i tend to find that women gravitate more towards coop/ single player games compared to competitive games but that is just an anecdotal experience. Then the women i do know that play league of legends are usually less inclined to grind ranked compared to men. Many probably get turned off to these kinds of games by harassment too (this definitely happens to men too, personally know 2 people who didn't wanna bother with the tilted denizens of LoL playerbase).

        [–]Marybr02 140 points141 points  (1 child)

        If I recall correctly, only around 12% of league players are female, which is a much smaller amount to pool from than males.

        [–]Kumquatts 327 points328 points  (2 children)

        Because there havent been any notable female players who can play at the same level as the males

        [–][deleted] 193 points194 points  (0 children)

        Because women generally don't enjoy e-sport games enough to spend 12 hours a day playing/practicing them. A lot of women do play games, but most of them prefer puzzle and adventure games (MMORPGS also), so % of serious female players is quite low in League on average.

        Think of e-sport like racing sports.

        Some stats of female playerbase distribution across industry.

        https://quanticfoundry.com/2017/01/19/female-gamers-by-genre/

        [–]SocialJusticeTemplar 65 points66 points  (0 children)

        Because the pool of women who want to play league at all is small, then the pool of women who want to play all day every day like some men do is even smaller. No one is stopping them from playing that much or playing at all, they just don't want to and think it's a waste of time. How many posts on reddit have you seen with an SO who wants their boyfriend to stop playing video games or a collectible hobby? A lot. They think it's weird and don't understand why men like to play video games.

        For me the answer is because it's fun, interactive, and most of all, there's no risk of actual real life failure, so it's easier than confronting life out in the real world. This is a big problem.

        [–]RestInPeppers 127 points128 points  (0 children)

        Gaming (and especially pro gaming) is still geared more towards it being a "boy thing." It's generally acceptable for a boy to no-life and play games more so than girls. This leads to a smaller pool of girl gamers who actually play and an even am smaller pool of girls who can actually compete at the highest levels.

        Plus male dominated spaces are not very welcoming towards women.

        [–]HowIMetVayne 45 points46 points  (0 children)

        Because no one is probably good enough to reach pro level? Or does not want to go pro? Which is what i would assume.

        [–]CptnZolofTVJUSTICE FOR VIKTOR 47 points48 points  (0 children)

        There are very few females who could even compete on the same level and the ones that can make way more money streaming/don't have the competitive drive.

        [–]Luxanna1019 35 points36 points  (0 children)

        As to why there are no females in pro play we can only speculate. And speculating won't really do much. But I do know that there are female players who are in challenger at least and would be worth putting in a team for pro play. Again, males dominate the pro scene but perhaps that's because they also dominate the whole playerbase by a large margin. I'd personally like to see more female players in general playing the game. There are a lot of female streamers who play league already and soon I hope to see more and more females playing league in general. League's not only a game for men, girls can go play and enjoy it too... and play at a very high level and compete against the best!

        Anyway here's some thoughts nonetheless:

        1. (most likely) The ones who are qualified aren't picked by teams because they have other players they think are more qualified.
        2. (highly unlikely) The female players who are qualified and are invited for pro play don't want to.
        3. (highly unsure about this one and I would appreciate a correction as its most likely false) Teams in general prefer same gender due to cultural and/or housing reasons? It's easier to put 5 male players in one house where they could practice non-stop than putting one sole female in the mix. (There are a lot of instances of girls and boys living together yes but some cultures frown upon it maybe?)

        It'll be nice to see more girls in the pro scene competing in high level play against the best. People/Teams/Organizations should keep encouraging more girls to go play the game. It's fun and enjoyable and if they feel competitive enough and qualified they should go pro. At the same time reputable female personalities would be great inspiration for girls who wish to play but are afraid to play due to "exclusion on the boys only club". On that note. Twitch rivals have a decent number of female players playing and they're pretty good as well. And people enjoyed watching them. There's no reason why it wouldn't be possible in higher level of play!

        edit: Just remembered Mayumi's a pro female player. the 1st one.
        edit 2: if you're not satisfied with the above then this vid may explain it better https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YuOS8tmMZ2E

        [–]dont_ping_me 8 points9 points  (0 children)

        What's weird is that Fighting Games have a decent amount of female talent too. Nothing crazy, but if they can get a few girls winning events i can't see why we should see a few more girls across all regions in LoL.

        [–]Falsus mid adcs yo 8 points9 points  (0 children)

        Because there hasn't really been any female playing at that and willing to go pro.

        [–]ReganDryke Don't stare directly at me for too long.[M] [score hidden] stickied comment (1 child)

        This thread has been locked because of the overwhelming amount of sexism.

        [–][deleted] 486 points487 points locked comment (0 children)

        https://i.imgur.com/l8xxPw9.png

        https://i.imgur.com/Or3uut0.png

        https://i.imgur.com/nW6cted.png

        https://i.imgur.com/MJlYVYg.png

        These are just some examples, and I barely had to scroll down. Be better than this everyone.

        [–][deleted] 80 points81 points  (0 children)

        I don't know all the story so Ill not speak for Vaevictis, but I would like to see more women, not because they are women, but because they would be good at the game. I'm sure having a better balanced gender proportion would help league grow as esport. My gf doesn't look at all at League, but maybe if there was a girl player in some team maybe it could get her watching some games.

        [–][deleted]  (1 child)

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          [–][deleted]  (6 children)

          [removed]

            [–][deleted] 64 points65 points  (3 children)

            Name one thing that is more awkward then proplayers posing..

            [–][deleted] 33 points34 points  (1 child)

            TEAM SODA MID

            [–][deleted] 15 points16 points  (0 children)

            TEAM SODA MID

            Watched this for the first time just now

            it was fucking painful

            [–]Lenticious 27 points28 points  (0 children)

            Proplayers not posing in the early days of league :(

            [–]PankoKing[M] -229 points-228 points  (0 children)

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