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[–]inscrutablemike 109 points110 points  (62 children)

Universe-brained next step: There is no such thing as "price gouging".

[–]faddiuscapitalusmood: dark enlightenment 41 points42 points  (12 children)

What they mean is "price discovery bad"

[–]persona0 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Free market experimentation

[–]the_fozzy_one 22 points23 points  (14 children)

Even wikipedia (a typically left-leaning source) describes price gouging as a pejorative term for raising prices in the first sentence.

[–]Zestyclose_Remove947 17 points18 points  (31 children)

Eh, gouging is easily possible in monopolies and oligopolies.

I know it's easy to just totally dismiss a problem as non-existent but it does actually exist.

When companies collude with eachother, and the gov colludes with them, you have, uhhh, gouging. Sorry that's just a fact.

[–]Wu-Tang_Killa_Bees 12 points13 points  (9 children)

Yes but raising the price of bottles water before a hurricane is not that

[–][deleted] 5 points6 points  (5 children)

Isn’t that just supply and demand?

[–]trufin2038 6 points7 points  (0 children)

The problem there has nothing to do with the freedom of people to sell things at any price they want. So describing the problem as "price gouging" invites exactly the wrong solution.

It's a leftist term for confusing people away from real economics. 

State monopoly cartels are not price gouging, they are central planning.

[–][deleted] 7 points8 points  (4 children)

The worst gouging comes when the government seizes industry and the only option is the government or the black market. 

[–][deleted] 14 points15 points  (32 children)

Price gouging provides incentives to increase supply when there are no barriers to increasing supply. In a disaster there are significant barriers so I don't buy the argument that excessive prices would lead to an increase in supply.

That said, pretending that nothing should be done in an shortage situation is naive. Some sort of rationing is necessary and they come with pros and cons.

Increasing prices is one form of rationing by making people less likely to buy more than they need but this favors the wealthy rather than those in need.

Direct rationing makes more sense but is more complex to administer. Depending on the context, direct rationing could be impossible to enforce.

However, disasters tend to be times when community spirit can be activated which could make a direct rationing a more tenable option by using the community to enforce.

[–]Significant-Bar674 3 points4 points  (7 children)

Yeah I don't know how people aren't getting this.

The main driver of price gouging is inelastic supply.

When the bridge is collapsed and there is 70% as much food in town for the next week, then it's not like the merchants are lining up to airdrop cargo or whatever wild supply side fantasy people here seem to be envisioning.

But the local store might just jack up the price by 200% since they have a different price point during a panic.

Yeah maybe you can to some extent in some contexts incentive a growth in supply but it sure as hell ain't all of them.

I remember a hurricane knocking out offshore refineries in 2008 and gas prices doubling.

There was still only one gas station with gas. Nobody drove in from 3 states over even with the higher price.

[–]warm_melody 0 points1 point  (0 children)

If I go to the store and water is $8 per bottle and I can drive the backroads and buy it for $2 and $3 in gas per then I can increase supply and decrease the price for the community and make a decent hourly wage too.

[–]3_Thumbs_Up 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Price gouging provides incentives to increase supply when there are no barriers to increasing supply. In a disaster there are significant barriers so I don't buy the argument that excessive prices would lead to an increase in supply.

New supply doesn't necessarily have to come from the outside. If the price of water goes up, than everyone within the disaster zone who happens to have a little more than they need, are incentivized to sell it/use it less/use alternatives.

You're also ignoring he time dimension. Goods don't necessarily have to enter the disaster zone afterwards. If price gouging wasn't so consistently banned, entrepreneurs would even start stocking up on necessities in anticipation of an emergency. The latest hurricane had weeks of warnings before it actually hit. That's weeks of time that entrepreneurs could use to get more stuff in.

In fact you don't even need to get more stuff in to alleviate the problem. Stores would start to withdraw stock in anticipation of the higher prices after the disaster.

[–]Inucroft 27 points28 points  (17 children)

That went oh so well for the Irish didn't it?

The people who need it most, are often the ones who cannot afford it

[–]Snoo-72988 8 points9 points  (2 children)

Op said famine good for business.

[–]Inucroft 5 points6 points  (1 child)

Op only thinks of short term, not years, decades or CENTURIES long economic impact

[–]worndown75 4 points5 points  (0 children)

This is an excellent point. One that really shoukd be understood. Companies burn their bridges if they move prices to fast.

A good example historically was A.P Giannini who started Bank of America. After the 1906 earthquake in San Fran he gave loans to everyone in the community. People thought he was mad. But sometimes being generous in times of crisis pays massive dividends down the road.

[–]Shifty_Radish468 40 points41 points  (37 children)

pats you on the head

Good Austrian

[–]PanaceaNPx 30 points31 points  (36 children)

Thanks dad 🙏

I got banned in /unpopularopinion for stating the exact same thing. Apparently this take is so unpopular that I broke the rules.

[–]Grey_Eye5 21 points22 points  (17 children)

Your hypothesis fails when the playing field is so wildly varied in terms of buying power.

Your whole premise revolves around the premise that people are mostly equal in their buying power and that those who “value a resource” the most would thus pay the most for it.

“Ensuring the people who truly need the water can access it”

You also ascertain that the gouging of prices “may” discourage hoarding.

There is a lot of heavy lifting being done by those few words in your (imo deeply flawed) statement.

A hypothetical: if I (a local business magnate and multi-millionaire) hear about a big storm incoming, I could decide to send my assistant to buy 15 pallets of water from the local store. This is due to my own desire to have enough water plus spare to cover all my families needs. I worry about the possibility of flooding etc limiting any further deliveries of water and as a past boy-scout I like the idea of “always being prepared”, so calculate 3 months of water would be best for the week long storm plus fallout and contingency, I can also write it off as a tax deduction through my business.

I have enough money to pay well over the odds, and am happily willing to do so as my own (selfish) desire to ‘protect’ my family is far stronger than any notion or sense of charity to the local populace that I do not interact with.

In this not unlikely scenario, it turns out that I can buy the entire local stores worth of water, even at the vastly overpriced “gouging” rates.

My assistant is literally paid to make sure I get that amount of water, to be first in line, and can spend any amount of time or actions (within the law) to get it (and may well even use immoral practices to get what I want- as I am a demanding boss- for example potentially even resorting to additional spending in the form of bribes).

So, if your example of “best practice price gouging” is followed I can take the entirety of the bottled water supply out of the market.

-I don’t have to do it for any gain or scalping profit, I just do it as water is a fundamental need for life -and I value it and my family, and crucially, have the *means** to pay more than anyone else*.

My actions aren’t selfish in many ways, as I haven’t even considered the fact that I have bought the whole stores supply, I am not directly or maliciously aiming to deprive anyone else, furthermore I am not doing it to profit at all- I am simply focused on personal survival for me and mine.

However, following your “price-gouging mindset” suggestion- my ability to buy at a vastly increased cost, has in fact NOT created a scenario where those who need it most, get it. It has NOT led to more fair or equal distribution, and nor has it led to me NOT hoarding, as that is exactly what I have done.

The only way I am stopped, would be if the store enacts a policy stating that I cannot buy everything and stock is rationed and limited per person, with the store taking into account the likely wider needs of the local population.

TLDR- your hypothesis does not get close to taking into account the vastly different levels of funding that individuals have particularly at the local level that many of these disasters occur at.

[–]bafadam -1 points0 points  (15 children)

It’s not unpopular: it’s stupid.

[–]theswedishturtle 4 points5 points  (0 children)

You mean allocate them to the people who actually can afford them. Needing a generator and being able to afford a generator that costs four times the normal price are two different things.

[–]disloyal_royal 15 points16 points  (16 children)

Higher prices signal that certain goods, like water, fuel, and food, are in short supply and motivate suppliers to prioritize those areas, which can help alleviate shortages.

Exactly

Raising prices can ration scarce resources by allocating them to those who value them the most. For example, if bottled water prices rise after a hurricane, it may discourage panic buying and hoarding, ensuring that people who truly need the water can access it.

Yup

If people knew this intuitively, the study of economics wouldn’t exist

[–]James-the-greatest 8 points9 points  (10 children)

Yeah exactly. I’m rich and so I can hoard all the water and food so that my poor neighbours who now don’t have a source of income can starve. 

This is the dumbest take ever

[–]JJJSchmidt_etAl 14 points15 points  (19 children)

"Price gouging" means that you're allowed to have supply equals demand. If you make it illegal during a disaster it means there are many people who want to buy but cannot. And people won't be willing to sell it.

So indeed, as introductory economics teaches, a price ceiling makes a shortage of goods supplied. Amazingly enough, having more good available during a disaster is a good thing. It's the difference between expensive water and no water.

I hate politicians who lie about basic economics, I hate even more the media who perpetuate and support the lies. A lot of those times those same politicians and their pet media outlets will call their opponents "anti science."

[–]BrassMonkey-NotAFed 6 points7 points  (1 child)

Half of the politicians don’t lie, they’re just stupid.

[–]disloyal_royal 6 points7 points  (0 children)

They’re smart, they respond to stupid incentives

[–]blind-octopus 1 point2 points  (6 children)

Hey, you know what else makes it so that people want to buy, but cannot?

Price gauging.

[–]JJJSchmidt_etAl 3 points4 points  (3 children)

There's a logical error here.

You're claiming that nobody is paying the higher price. Guess what the suppliers would do then.

[–]Clear-Present_Danger 1 point2 points  (6 children)

have supply equals demand

That is only true in a competitive, high information market.

And immediately after a disaster is neither.

[–]aquinn57 0 points1 point  (2 children)

It does produce a shortage but that shortage can also be relieved by disaster relief efforts (think government relief to be distributed such as water and food).

[–]Admirable-Arm-7264 3 points4 points  (2 children)

So the people who “need them most” are… wealthy people who can afford the raised prices? This seems willfully cruel and silly even for this sub

[–]PanaceaNPx 0 points1 point  (1 child)

No, we’re not talking wealthy people. You’ve made the errror in thinking that people are priced out of everything and only millionaires and billionaires can afford things. No, we’re talking about a realistic increase in prices that causes everyone to reconsider what they really need.

[–]the_fozzy_one 32 points33 points  (54 children)

It may be unpopular but it shouldn't be. The thing that many people don't understand about prices (and I mostly didn't either until reading Basic Economics) is that prices transmit economic information in a distributed fashion throughout the economy. An entrepreneur nearby a disaster area doesn't need to understand anything about weather forecasting or hurricanes. Hearing on the news about a 500% increase in the price of bottled water is enough information for him or her to take action to truck in more water for profit.

Ultimately, this entrepreneurial response results in more water (and, thus, lower real prices) for the people in need. Only economically illiterate people or politicians exploiting their naivete advocate for laws against "price gouging".

[–]Overall-Tree-5769 13 points14 points  (3 children)

Sometimes the results of basic economics can blind you to the assumptions made to get those results. The distribution of price information can be badly disrupted by a natural disaster. Increasing supply in the short term can be physically impossible. 

I don’t think price controls would be better, but I think price gouging on something needed to survive that is in limited supply is immoral. 

[–]James-the-greatest 7 points8 points  (0 children)

They transmit it in a stable market with equal access to information. In a situation where people have had all they’re stuff destroyed and potentially their source of income it’s just tyrany

[–][deleted] 8 points9 points  (19 children)

What about the people that can't afford a 500% increase in bottled water prices? We should just be cool with them dying suffering?

[–]plummbob 3 points4 points  (18 children)

They are the reason it's 500% and not 200%

Besides, what's the price of water when the store runs out?

[–][deleted] 2 points3 points  (16 children)

That's exactly why it shouldn't be private entities that distribute water and food in an emergency like a hurricane or a earthquake. The government, having a lot more purchasing power that private entities, should buy food and water in enough quantities to provide for the disrupted areas regulating how much a person could take so no one take more than what they need. We know how much food and water a person need to survive per day, during an emergency every person should be able to have enough food and water to survive since the end goal in an emergency should be limiting casualties, not making money or being comfortable

[–]dbudlov 3 points4 points  (6 children)

The govts purchasing power comes from society, govts pretty much suck at solving emergencies plenty of examples where their bureaucracy makes things worse not better

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (1 child)

So what you're saying is that we should actually let people that can't afford water and food, or simply can't find it because some moron stocked weeks of food and water for a two days emergency to suffer and die

[–]PanaceaNPx 6 points7 points  (21 children)

Yeah the problem is that if you surveyed people, 99% are going to be in favor of price gouging laws.

It’s just one of those things that people don’t understand and no matter how much reasoning I present, people feel like it’s immoral.

[–]Zestyclose_Remove947 8 points9 points  (9 children)

Because it is immoral.

Despite "economic information" being transferred, selling water at 1000 bucks a gallon to a person who has just had their house destroyed and needs that water immediately is disgustingly immoral.

idgaf if it means other suppliers can eventually get in there and compete and lower the prices (which isn't really guaranteed to happen quickly or at all in a free market but it can) in the immediate moment you're depriving people of basic survival needs for profit. That is immoral. Sorry bud.

[–]PanaceaNPx 0 points1 point  (0 children)

You’re using an extreme example to try to prove your point. Water isn’t going to $1000 a gallon. No, it’s doubling in price which is still affordable to ordinary people but it causes everyone to reconsider what they really need instead of hoarding.

[–]Fearless_Ad7780 2 points3 points  (0 children)

There is more than one way to look at things morally and ethically.

[–]the_fozzy_one 4 points5 points  (6 children)

There are many things that are true which, if you said out loud, would instantly make you a pariah. One such doozy: Africans and Arabs created the African slave trade and the British ended it.

[–]Zestyclose_Remove947 10 points11 points  (1 child)

Africans and Arabs created the African slave trade and the British ended it.

Weird way to say "Slavery had always existed and was perpetuated by pretty much everyone"

When you say shit that's clearly intended to frame events in a certain way, even if they are factually correct, people smell your bullshit, because anyone who knows more than what you're saying understands why it's not the full picture.

[–]Nbdt-254 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Because this way he can imply black people are to blame for being enabled 

[–][deleted] 7 points8 points  (0 children)

12 million Africans were transported across the atlantic. 4 million on British ships (though yes, they did eventually cause its abolition). Your two isolated factoids misrepresent the true historical picture.

[–]RedK_33 1 point2 points  (1 child)

The first system of slavery established around the Mediterranean, North Africa and parts of Europe and the Middle East was established by The Roman Empire. Various systems of slavery continued thereafter in the Islamic and Christian kingdoms. The Trans-Saharan Slave Trade which was operated by Arabs, was originally established by the Romans.

The Ottomans closed off Europe’s access to the Balkan and Crimean slave trade. That’s why the Portuguese sailed down the western coast of Africa, establishing their outposts and beginning the Atlantic Slave Trade. The whole point was to get away from the Arabs.

As far as Africa slavery goes I’ll just leave this excerpt here…..

“It is important to distinguish between European slavery and African slavery. In most cases, slavery systems in Africa were more like indentured servitude in that the slaves retained some rights and children born to slaves were generally born free. The slaves could be released from servitude and join a family clan. In contrast, European slaves were chattel, or property, who were stripped of their rights. The cycle of slavery was perpetual; children of slaves would, by default, also be slaves.” - Zayde Antrim

[–]the_fozzy_one 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Interesting, thanks for the education.

[–]KevlarFire 0 points1 point  (0 children)

No, not a pariah. Just wrong.

[–]Grey_Eye5 1 point2 points  (0 children)

1) No amount of “entrepreneurial spirit” will be able to overcome some of the physical logistical limitations of natural disasters. Vans simply cannot deliver in 15 ft high coastal storm surges. During and after major natural disasters and extreme weather events there simply ARE limitations that totally limit the ability to increase supply and that is a truly fundamental flaw in your staggeringly myopic suggestions.

2)Assuming the supply cannot be increased, gouging the pricing on basic human needs goods (like bottled water) is truly immoral, it also does not lead to a wider more equal supply spread. It does not lead to any reduction in hoarding. As proven by those wealthy few that both paid overinflated prices from the shops and ALSO hoarded the limited items with the direct AIM to strip others of their abilities to buy during Covid and then overcharge them.

-There were many examples of wealthy individuals attempting to corner the entire market on certain necessities such as bottled water, toilet paper and reprehensibly- baby formulas, with the aim of creating localized short-term monopolies to thus also create their own even higher price gouging profits. Immoral and disgusting.

This all however can easily be stopped by imposing rationing by those stores that DID have supply in affected regions.

This stops hoarding, this stops price gouging and it allows both widespread distribution and reduces the chances of fatal shortages.

[–][deleted] 2 points3 points  (1 child)

Except it doesn't lower prices. That's the whole fucking point of this post.

[–]whatssupdude 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Cool but that under fair market conditions. None of which are met. This isn’t a typical free market.

[–]skb239 0 points1 point  (1 child)

Or maybe no one profits off a natural disaster in this way… maybe we don’t rely on a free market to distribute good after a disaster like this…

[–]GHOST12339 5 points6 points  (0 children)

I'm not saying it should be regulated, but I am saying that all the people who bought toilet paper to the point shelves were bare over a TWO DAY "Strike" by dock workers, I think show just how fickle supply lines are.
In an emergency, elevated prices or not, any random person can spend the money (or credit) necessary to buy those supplies... Leaving every one else who needs them, without them.
While technically "fair" (without favortism or discrimination), I do not agree this is the "best" way to allocate resources.
While high prices SHOULD act as a deterrent to hoarding and over purchasing, that just simply doesn't mean that's how it's going to work.
Its a purely "on paper" world view, where as people clearly are not rational in an emergency situation (and also just have no concept of what they actually need to get through the event).
While I agree and align most with the Austrian, free market world view, I think its important to identify short comings in our chosen systems.
This is one of them (in my opinion).
Its not just the greed of the company, it's the greed (/ survival instinct) of the individuals at play that tip the scales.
Idk. Just my 1am musings on the topic.

[–][deleted]  (6 children)

[removed]

    [–][deleted] 3 points4 points  (0 children)

    The one valid argument in this thread, and you're arguing that price gouging *can* work as well as regulated pricing assuming vendors are charitable.

    [–]Nbdt-254 1 point2 points  (0 children)

    Frankly when it’s a situation where people’s lives are at stake fucking your profit margins

    That’s another aspect here price gouging in disasters encourages looting

    You try to charge me $30 for a bottle of water in a hurricane I’ll punch you in the face and steal it

    [–]PanaceaNPx 2 points3 points  (3 children)

    This is the way

    [–]Fearless_Ad7780 1 point2 points  (2 children)

    Hey, op. In the other post you made about this, you clamed most economist are in favor of price gouging during natural disasters. I've looking for some of that research, and can't find it. Can you send some links?

    [–]Wu-Tang_Killa_Bees 2 points3 points  (7 children)

    About a year ago our son was a baby on formula. There was an incident here in Philly that meant the drinking water could potentially become contaminated in the near future. As you might imagine, within minutes there were huge lines at every store of people buying all the bottled water they could carry. I actually work during the day so by the time I got the store an hour later it was sold out.

    I wish the local store had price "gouged." Had they raised the price of a gallon of water to $100, the first guy there would be less inclined to buy 15 "just in case" and there may have been some left for my son. 24 hours without food would have been enough to be life threatening to him, so I would have happily paid that $100 for the gallon of water.

    Fortunately it ended up being a non-issue and the tap water remained safe to drink, but it's a good example that even an essential like water can be valued by some more than others

    [–]ironsides1231 2 points3 points  (1 child)

    What about the people who don't have $100 for a gallon of water? They are now in the exact same situation you were in. Wouldn't it have been better to simply ration how many gallons of water an individual could buy??

    Rationing actually means the water can be distributed as necessary where as even with crazy price gouging everything can be bought up and then marked up even higher by individuals. It takes time for supplies to get to a location in a disaster, regardless of the price incentive. So simply raising the prices doesn't fix supply issues overnight.

    [–]InterpolInvestigator 1 point2 points  (1 child)

    The only issue is - what should the person who only has $50 in their bank account do in that scenario? Does their baby not deserve to eat?

    [–]Kaleban 4 points5 points  (2 children)

    What an asinine take, no wonder you got banned.

    Your argument assumes universal access and purchasing power where the determining factor is want, not need.

    Everyone needs water in case you forgot.

    [–]Accomplished-Boss-14 9 points10 points  (4 children)

    any price hike sufficient enough to entice suppliers is going to exclude those consumers who have the greatest need for the supplies in the first place.

    [–]disloyal_royal 1 point2 points  (2 children)

    Any price hike will prevent hoarding as marginal utility falls below price

    [–]Accomplished-Boss-14 2 points3 points  (1 child)

    simultaneously ineffective against consumers who can afford to ignore the price hike, and detrimental to those who are priced out of even a single unit; forced to ration against other necessities with an extremely limited budget.

    [–]disloyal_royal 4 points5 points  (0 children)

    simultaneously ineffective against consumers who can afford to ignore the price hike,

    If you have zero toilet paper, the marginal utility of 1 is inelastic. If you have 1000 rolls, marginal utility is negative since you have to store it

    and detrimental to those who are priced out of even a single unit; forced to ration against other necessities with an extremely limited budget.

    High prices cure high prices. If you keep prices artificially low, people with connections will over consume meaning everyone else can’t have access

    [–]plummbob 0 points1 point  (0 children)

    No, its a rightward shift in demand caused by them.

    [–]NovelExamination5431 2 points3 points  (4 children)

    Nah people will just take that stuff by force dude the price doesn’t matter when stores are getting raided

    [–]disloyal_royal 1 point2 points  (0 children)

    Rooftop Koreans prevent that

    [–]PanaceaNPx 2 points3 points  (2 children)

    A breakdown in social order is something else entirely.

    [–]Nbdt-254 3 points4 points  (0 children)

    You’re talking about natural disaster economics it’s gotta be part of the equation 

    [–][deleted] 2 points3 points  (5 children)

    I keep seeing this take and no one will answer the most basic question. How does price gouging ensure those that need basic supplies more than others? Who determines who needs water and gas more than others? Price gouging doesn’t ensure only those that need it get it. It ensures only those with the most money won’t break their banks accounts buying everything up.

    Seriously in a natural disaster every person needs supplies. Not just those that can afford it.

    This is a seriously childish take. I’m all for free market. This isn’t the free market.

    [–]Iam-WinstonSmith 1 point2 points  (0 children)

    Just got done with Hurricane Milton here. Gas went up 13 cents before the hurricane got here. To me it seemed essential because every pump went dry before the hurricane. Price hikes are an efficient way to allocate resources no matter how undesirable.

    Why people freak out and buy up toilet paper during an emergency I will never get but they ought to double the price on that shit.

    [–]ninjaluvr 1 point2 points  (0 children)

    Need isn't based on available cash.

    [–]PresidentAshenHeart 1 point2 points  (5 children)

    Dumb for a reason!

    The only people who will be able to afford those goods are those who already have tons of $$$.

    The people who need your goods most are the poorest who (surprise) won’t be able to afford them!

    [–]jgs952 1 point2 points  (0 children)

    It astounds me how much faith some people have in an idealistic price discovery mechanism prompting perfectly efficient allocation and reallocation of resources.

    For once, maybe open your eyes and try to understand the real world where people live.

    If a community has been struck by a hurricane leaving vital infrastructure and production systems damaged for extended periods, the little supply of food, water, and/or fuel that is remaining to provision some form of life is clearly supply constrained. But if those private suppliers simply hike prices far above their input costs in order to generate large monetary profit margins, all that will happen is the richest in that community gain access to those vital resources and the poorest get nothing.

    It is morally obscene to ignore this empirical fact. Getting new supply online or redistributed from elsewhere may take weeks or months, all the while social cohesion is breaking down because some free market ideologues can't see the issue with distributing vital resources in an emergency by how much nominal wealth you have rather than by need.

    [–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (4 children)

    All I hear is poor people deserve to die.

    [–]Pichupwnage 1 point2 points  (0 children)

    This is stupid fucking shit.

    [–]taydugz 1 point2 points  (0 children)

    You don't know what allocative inefficiency is, then. You are saying that market failure is a good and moral thing; that's quite strange.

    Moreover, your tact is pareto-inoptimal as it permits an adverse wealth redistribution from consumer surplus to producer surplus.

    [–]Ruddie 1 point2 points  (2 children)

    Does a poor person VALUE the water less then a rich person? Do only the rich NEED water?

    [–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

    Are you suggesting poor people don't need supplies in a disaster? You think poor people value food, water and fuel during a disaster less than rich people because they have less money?

    "Only the wealthy truly value water so restricting access only to them" as a moral argument is...rich.

    [–]DJteejay04 1 point2 points  (4 children)

    Price gouging is exploitation. On paper, what you’re saying makes sense. Higher prices will prioritize supply, raise demand, bring in more suppliers, lowers price.

    In practice, it’s not as effective. By gouging, you will exclude the lowest class who are unable to pay. That supply is redistributed to the wealthiest class who is able to hoard the supply.

    This will eventually bring in more suppliers, but it won’t be instant. Washed out roads and lack of electricity will disrupt the supply chain further, slowing down new market entrants.

    During this time, the poverty stricken who do not have the means to pay, will turn to looting and crime to acquire resources. Creating an unsafe zone that will detract suppliers further.

    It could be weeks to months before the demand curve shifts back to equilibrium. During this time, the few suppliers profit greatly off selling their higher priced goods to the upper class while the lower class starves.

    [–][deleted]  (6 children)

    [deleted]

      [–]Nuthousemccoy 1 point2 points  (9 children)

      Agree. Without viewing price merely as a rationing mechanism, goods must be rationed another way. If so called price gouging is not allowed, that mechanism becomes first come first served. And many customers walk out empty handed

      [–]albert768 1 point2 points  (0 children)

      In the absence of so-called "price gouging", the most common consequence is that no one gets any goods. I'd much rather some people get goods at a price they might not like than no one get any.

      [–]Think-Culture-4740 1 point2 points  (7 children)

      There's a great anecdote coming out of Hurricane Sandy.

      A quartet of electricians fix the electrical grid that services, among many things, a small convenience store.

      They then go into the store to order some beer and the owner charges them an outrageous amount for a six pack. Something like triple the normal rate. Angrily, the electricians purchased the beer, drank it, and then proceeded to disconnect the stores electricity as punishment for being price gouged.

      What those guys didn't realize is...had the beer been priced normally, there would have not been any beer for them to purchase!

      [–]vegancaptainveganarchist :doge: 5 points6 points  (0 children)

      And democracy works by feeling. If you had to vote for what the solution for the Monty Hall problem was then 80-90% would get it wrong. So they would then make policy based on a bad premise. That x10000 is democracy.

      [–]adr826 3 points4 points  (5 children)

      Price gouging makes sure that in a disaster only rich people have access to the things that are necessary to live. Who can argue that the wealthy are just more worthy to live in a post disaster area. I mean in an emergency why charge so little money that some guy with kids who needs gas has the same access as someone who is wealthy and so clearly more worthy of life after a crisis. One dollar one vote that's what democracy means. Of.course the wealthy get.resources first that's what it means to be rich. That's why we have laws to protect the rich from the consequences of life

      Of course we could allocate resources with a fair price and a cardboard sign that says maximum 5 gallons but how are going. To make a profit that way?

      [–]Sustainability_Walks 3 points4 points  (4 children)

      Here we go again with “supply and demand….its Economics 101 BS”. ….Austrians must be a greedy bunch, LOL. Lots of starving g children’s stomachs demanding food right now. Where on earth is the supply? Oh yeah, they don’t have enough money I guess.

      [–]Front_Farmer345 1 point2 points  (5 children)

      Right up there with allowing more gas extraction will drop prices.

      [–]s1lentchaos 1 point2 points  (1 child)

      After spending sometime arguing with a few people on reddit about this i came to the conclusion that the average person would prefer that everyone be worse off (because banning price gouging means fewer people bother to bring in supplies during disasters) than allow some people to profit.

      [–]throwawaydogs420 0 points1 point  (0 children)

      Well it's simply supply and demand. Big I have a hotel and it fills up 80% full and let's say I have 20 rooms left but a line of 100 people who needs rooms. Well rising the price is literally what any business will do in that situation.

      [–]TheWeightofDarkness 0 points1 point  (2 children)

      Generally correct

      [–]PanaceaNPx 0 points1 point  (1 child)

      As always, people jump to extreme examples to try to disprove a point. We’re not talking extremes here. We’re talking a sharp increase in price to make sure resources and supplies go to the people who actually need them. Not $500/gallon water.

      [–]blind-octopus 0 points1 point  (1 child)

      Interesting.

      So why was it so hard to buy toilet paper for a while

      [–]PanaceaNPx 0 points1 point  (0 children)

      If prices of toilet paper tripled, people would reconsider and only buy what they need instead of hoarding supplies.

      This is actually a pretty good example.

      [–]dbudlov 0 points1 point  (0 children)

      It's only unpopular because govts claim it's greed and evil and they must be allowed to intervene by force to save people from it

      And most of the population are as usual stupid enough to fall for that

      To me it's pretty logical that you want prices to rise to encourage more production alternatives and solutions to be bought to that area and preventing that happening prevents the market doing what it's good at, and leads to shortages and rationing instead

      [–]urza5589 0 points1 point  (2 children)

      Raising prices can ration scarce resources by allocating them to those who "Can afford them regardless of if they need them."

      If you are literally dying of dehydration and I offer you a case of water for 100K, your maximization of utility is to pay my 100K. Do you really think that's an ethical decision by me? And if you say no, or don't have 100K, I should just watch you die?

      [–]technocraticnihilistFriedrich Hayek 0 points1 point  (0 children)

      Yep

      [–]ChestertonsFence1929 0 points1 point  (2 children)

      I have a degree in economics, so I agree with you. You’re right, it’s a very unpopular opinion but it does move more goods to the area of need quicker and reduces hoarding.

      [–]PanaceaNPx 1 point2 points  (1 child)

      It’s pretty fascinating how hard it is to explain this to people without people thinking you’re greedy.

      Also, most people just to extreme examples. But that’s not what we’re talking about here.

      [–]turboninja3011 0 points1 point  (0 children)

      Right, but it inevitably pegs “importance” of your needs to your ability to create value (satisfy needs of others).

      While it seems rational for some, others may find it immoral.

      [–]akleit50 0 points1 point  (1 child)

      There’s a reason your opinion is unpopular. It’s wrong. It doesn’t allocate resources, it restricts them.

      [–]Ohey-throwaway 0 points1 point  (2 children)

      Raising prices can ration scarce resources by allocating them to those who value them the most. For example, if bottled water prices rise after a hurricane, it may discourage panic buying and hoarding, ensuring that people who truly need the water can access it.

      There are some serious flaws in your logic considering the large distribution of income. Raising prices can ration scarce resources, but who pays the most isn't necessarily a matter of who needs or values that given commodity the most, it could simply be a matter of who has the most money to spare.

      [–]State_L3ss 0 points1 point  (4 children)

      That's a great way to get shot.

      [–]Debt-Then 0 points1 point  (9 children)

      Wow I think your heart is morally bankrupt.

      [–]polygenic_score 0 points1 point  (0 children)

      14 year old up in his room trying to avoid algebra homework

      [–]MonkeyFu 0 points1 point  (1 child)

      Ah yes.  Making resources less accessible to the poor, and at the same time, reducing their access to future resources in the same move, while still enabling the wealthy to horde those resources, in a disaster definitely means those who need the resources more (the wealthy) get access to them. /s

      There’s no way anyone would try to create an artificially limited supply, or use those resources to coerce people and exacerbate the situation, or anything else that could actually make the disaster worse. /s

      And the wealthy are definitely the people who need the resources more. /s

      [–]nonewfriendsworld 0 points1 point  (0 children)

      first things first: im dumb with that being said: what about the people that need the goods but can’t afford them at their new higher costs?

      [–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (4 children)

      I agree that stores should have the freedom to do it. I dont know that it means the resources will go where needed most. I mean I have enough money that if I want to fill up my tank for triple the price I am going to do it. Poor people might need gas more than me but can’t afford that. Still, that is not the stores problem. When they see an opportunity they should be allowed to take it. And if the free market wants to punish them afterwards, then that is fine too. 

      [–]IncandescentObsidian 0 points1 point  (2 children)

      People already know that there will be higher demand. Price signals dont give any extra info

      [–]Hot_Significance_256 0 points1 point  (0 children)

      If the idea is equal distribution, wouldn’t rationing make more sense, especially in the context of a society with incredible wealth inequality?

      [–]Crafty_Jello_3662 0 points1 point  (0 children)

      In theory you could well be correct, in practice it means a few rich people get a bit richer than they would have done on exchange for poor people dying when they could have lived.

      I think that's probably the main issue people have with it

      [–]Masturbatingsoon 0 points1 point  (0 children)

      Hard agree. Famous examples San Francisco after the great Earthquake

      [–]pizza_box_technology 0 points1 point  (0 children)

      This is a truly insane take and represents Austrian Economics in the most extreme sense.

      If competitive pricing during an emergency was a thing prices would not double overnight. The reality is that we dont live in a free market society, we live under a handful of monopolies. They decide when they can gouge, and there isnt any real competition to stop them.

      But yes. Thats a good thing. Great take. “Fuck me harder corporate daddy! Its good for the economy!”

      You brainwashed fucks. How did you all go from libertarian to “corporations can take whatever they want from me!”. Its sickening how far “libertarians” will bend over for monopolies pretending its a free market. Christ.

      [–]toyguy2952 0 points1 point  (0 children)

      Complain about the price of plane tickets and gas all you want. Price cap or not the planes will still end up full and the pumps dry.

      [–]Diligent_Matter1186 0 points1 point  (0 children)

      As weird as it may sound, you don't let a starving person gourge themselves. You slowly reintroduce a "normal" quantity meal in steps over a set time frame. Similarly has to be done when there is a sudden resource scarcity, or you will have average people panic buying, and those with wealth and influence to try to "cut the line" or cheat the system in some fashion. It just absolutely destroys the supply of goods. Like a starving person, if you give them a large amount of food, they will stuff themselves until their stomach bursts, they won't ration their food. People will have to wait until supplies stabilize after a disaster.

      [–]SaintsFanPA 0 points1 point  (3 children)

      LOL. Maybe you could argue that temporarily raising prices is an effective means of allocating scarce resources, but the claim that it will create incentives for suppliers to increase supply is utter lunacy. The time-frame is too short to warrant the investment in emergency means of supply - if the roads are washed out, are you suggesting Poland Springs invest in a fleet of Sikorsky helicopters? What if the retailers they partner with are underwater? Set up an alternative means of sale? No business is going to so uproot their day-to-day business for a week or two of higher prices. Not to mention the loss of brand value if, say, Walmart is seen as price gouging during hurricanes - their entire brand is "Everyday low prices" for Christ's sake.

      [–]adminsaredoodoo 0 points1 point  (2 children)

      when will austrian economists discover the principle of inelastic demand…?

      [–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

      I think you might be confusing something - society and the people in it aren't an economy. You're just describing an ideal market, not an ideal outcome for, you know, people... which is where morality would be coming into play. Economies don't have a morality.

      Additionally, if you are saying that eventually supply will increase due to market signals, the concept of price gouging stems from spiking prices for an existing supply, usually one which there is a monopoly over... so this additional supply may never come.

      Also worth noting they are usually reactions to temporary events, so it's unlikely new supply will come in time before the event is resolved because of how quickly they would have to react.

      If there was already competition, either they would have undercut the gouger and eaten their lunch, or they both push their prices up in which case competition hasn't resolved in lower prices and any newcomers would have no reason not to follow the same strategy and keep prices high.

      [–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (1 child)

      Wait till it happens to you, and you need to have clear water or a ticket out.

      [–]Limp-Pride-6428 0 points1 point  (0 children)

      Question. Hypothetically is a rich person has the money couldn't they panic buy up things any way because they have the funds? Also the people most in need of resources may have just lost their house/bank/credit cards and are in an unstable situation so are most likely to be unable to immediately afford strong price increase. But because these increases are on thing required to live such as water, food, transportation to safety, and other essentials they must find a way to pay any even going into debt so that they can live.

      [–]PigeonsArePopular 0 points1 point  (3 children)

      Austrians bending over backwards to justify naked opportunistic greed in service of the god of market function?!  Quelle surprise

      [–]Less-Procedure-4104 0 points1 point  (0 children)

      They just need to do the Uber trick and call it surge pricing not price gouging.

      [–]Dense-Marionberry-31 0 points1 point  (9 children)

      I’m okay with that as long as people who need these things can take them by force as well. As an example, if I have a gun, and you don’t, I will be able to take your generator and gasoline.

      If you are going to up the ante, go all the way man.

      [–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (15 children)

      I sincerely hope that next time you get sick they bankrupt you for treament.

      [–]PixelsGoBoom 0 points1 point  (0 children)

      You mistake "value the most" with "who can afford it".
      And being able to afford something does not mean in any way that you actually need it the most.

      But any excuse to make a buck right?

      [–]dapete2000 0 points1 point  (2 children)

      The families who end up spending their savings on basic necessities in the period during which our entrepreneurial heroes are taking advantage of a temporary interruption in supply will thank you for this. Their penury serves a vastly more important social good.

      [–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

      The market justifies itself due to the recognition of scarcity, yet due to its structural mechanics, promotes And reward Infinite cyclical consumption

      [–]Nbdt-254 0 points1 point  (0 children)

      You’re also ignoring one of the main reason for anti gouging laws: maintaining order

      Gouging and hoarding during a disaster will increase looting and fighting over resources

      I’ll gladly pay even slightly higher prices in a disaster.  Most people dont loot either.

      Start charging $30 bucks for a bottle of water?  Im just taking it. Let someone buy up everything and hold hostage?  You’re begging for riots.

      [–]Malakai0013 0 points1 point  (3 children)

      There it is, one of the worst things I've read all week. It does perfectly encapsulate how people will twist themselves in mental gymnastics to lie to themselves to allow immoral things to keep happening. So there's that.

      [–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (8 children)

      You know how they say socialism sounds good on paper? Same thing with capitalism, until the only people who can afford water and food are the rich while hurricane victims die en mass because they just lost their entire lives and can’t afford a 2 grand bottle of water.

      [–]mattyice18 0 points1 point  (0 children)

      Neal Boortz would be proud.

      [–]Nbdt-254 0 points1 point  (0 children)

      Your whole point here isn’t a practical one it’s an ideological one.  You can’t admit markets ever fail and need regulation even in the most extreme cases otherwise your market based religion doesn’t make sense 

      [–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

      BRAIN CELLS!!!??? Don't expect to get into economics academia anytime soon.

      [–]Praetoriangual 0 points1 point  (0 children)

      This guy definitely does not understand human behavior

      [–]Elrhat 0 points1 point  (0 children)

      Allowing prices to rise sharply during a natural disaster creates incentives for suppliers to bring in additional goods to areas where they’re most needed.

      That is IF the suppliers can reach the area in the first place. If the area is inaccessible, not financially but physically inaccessible, you can't apply normal market rules.

      Higher prices signal that certain goods, like water, fuel, and food, are in short supply and motivate suppliers to prioritize those areas, which can help alleviate shortages.

      Only if you can get the goods there. A disaster like hurricane, earthquakes, etc. prevent the normal functioning of the market, at least in the short term. As such applying normal market rules, in the short term, is not possible.

      Raising prices can ration scarce resources by allocating them to those who value them the most.

      Everyone values water, 3 days without it and you die. So the value of water (as a VITAL good, not for other purposes) is the same for everyone. As such you are not allocating it to those who value it most (since everyone values it the same) but to those who pay more

      For example, if bottled water prices rise after a hurricane, it may discourage panic buying and hoarding, ensuring that people who truly need the water can access it.

      It won't, it only limits who can panic buy and hoard.

      In this sense, price increases can prevent shortages from becoming even more severe.

      Price increase =/= price gouging

      The problem is that price gouging FEELS immoral and greedy and few people can see that it’s an economic mechanism that benefits the most people.

      Because it is immoral and greedy, and its NOT a beneficial economic mechanism.

      An example, if the supply of water will be restored in a week after the disaster, and i am the only provider in the area who still has water left. That means that i could demand all the money you have and more from you, since the alternative is death.

      So no, this situation cannot be compared to a regular market and, as such, you cannot apply austrian economics to it

      [–]iicup2000 0 points1 point  (0 children)

      Price gouging is when the price of a good is raised to an unreasonable level, often to take advantage of the increased demand. If the demand goes up while the supply remains the same, the price also rises proportionally- thats economics 101. Price Gouging is not proportional. It only works when supply can be increased as well, and in a disaster this is usually not the case.

      [–]Eldetorre 0 points1 point  (0 children)

      Price gouging is only rationalIzed under conditions where price hikes are required for suppliers to take extra risks to bring things to market i.e during war time. Raising prices for stuff that is already on the shelf/ in inventory just means poorer people who already have bigger problems evacuating get screwed harder. Furthermore, in disaster scenarios, selling out inventory at a fair price in limited quantities assures that there will be less inventory lost to disaster. Any vendor price gouging shouldn't be able to collect insurance for any inventory they've lost due to greed.

      [–]MonitorPowerful5461 0 points1 point  (0 children)

      Boosting this so everyone can see what austrian economics means

      [–]Lonely_Cold2910 0 points1 point  (0 children)

      So true. You can make a choice. Also this price gouging only happens at certain times, when gov increases the money supply. Each and every time. You think 💭 that if the geniuses knew that they should stop increasing the money supply and gouging would stop. But rather it’s a great excuse to keep gov growing and increase power.

      [–]Lonely_Cold2910 0 points1 point  (0 children)

      Bought a washing machine a few years back. Cost $1300 , recently it stopped working, went to buy another. About $1050. Went down the road to another warehouse supplier negotiated a price down to $750. Anything is possible. All done without government intervention. Imagine if gov was involved; “Blah blah blah, big biz fault blah, bad orange guy,blah blah oil Barton’s,blah blah….set up a new department of non gouging…..blah.”

      [–]Busterlimes 0 points1 point  (0 children)

      Need and afford are two very different things. People who can afford things buy them all to try and make more money off them. Look at how idiots treat toilet paper during a disaster.

      [–]SporkydaDork 0 points1 point  (0 children)

      This is the dumbest take Austrians have that they keep trying to rationalize by refusing to go deeper into their ideology and dealing with the flaws.

      This assumes that poor people can outbid wealthier people. So if a poor person is unable to afford their necessities in a disaster situation, they don't need the resources because boss man Jimmy gave the store owner a million dollars to buy every item on the shelf.

      So according to this dumbest logic. Boss man Jimmy is the most needy person in town because he bought all the resources.

      [–]Hans_of_Death 0 points1 point  (0 children)

      This is only true if everyone is in a similar financial situation

      [–]Coysinmark68 0 points1 point  (0 children)

      That would only be true if all of the purchasers had the same resources. In reality all it does is make essential goods unavailable to the poor or disadvantaged.

      [–]Any-Oven8688 0 points1 point  (0 children)

      What's to stop people from stealing said overpriced goods. You are talking about exploiting people in their time of need. And in the case of a hurricane. Take the last bit of money they have. Now they have no money left for after the storm. You want to hit them before they are down.

      [–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

      One hundred percent. Thank you!

      [–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

      Lol at this sub

      [–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (1 child)

      We are without power....prolly till tuesday. My neighbor gave me a case of bottled water. Helping each other is the best policy in a disaster... put milton friedman in fla right now without power. Wo safe drinking water. He would be singing a diff tune

      [–]MrBobBuilder 0 points1 point  (0 children)

      People may not hog all the gas at 70 bucks a gallon, may just take what they need and now everyone has gas

      [–]MrBobBuilder 0 points1 point  (0 children)

      Also I’m sure suppliers are more willing to do sketch stuff to get stuff to needy people if I get hella money

      [–]DueReserve638 0 points1 point  (0 children)

      That’s just a factual opinion

      [–]TrashManufacturer 0 points1 point  (0 children)

      Nah. The wealthy will buy more than the poors. The poors can’t afford the price so they will buy none.

      The Larpers in here will say I’m lying. Rations work, because capital has always and will always seek to maximize short term gain. Shareholder capitalism has no alternative mode

      [–]Otherwise_Bobcat_819 0 points1 point  (1 child)

      Did raising the price of daraprim 5,000% in 2015 provided a strong signal to the market that it was in short supply and to produce more daraprim? Not until the FDA approved a generic version in 2020. Prices don’t always signal relative value. Sometimes they signal greed.

      [–]SassyMoron 0 points1 point  (0 children)

      Banning price gouging in a disaster is essentially a tax. Those with the resources have received an unexpected windfall profit. When evaluating taxes, we should consider how much deadweight loss they will lead to. This one would seem to generate almost zero deadweight loss. You could argue that the hoarders should be rewarded for their foresight . . . But if we didn't HAVE hoarders, we wouldn't need their foresight. So as taxes go, banning price gouging is a pretty good one. And the beneficiaries of the tax are the disaster victims who don't have to pay as much. They are highly likely to immediately spend their windfall in the private market where it will do the most good.

      [–]TheBigRedDub 0 points1 point  (0 children)

      Raising prices can ration scarce resources by allocating them to those who value them the most.

      Okay so how it actually works in the real world, is that everyone has the roughly the same basic needs. Everyone needs roughly the same amount of water, everyone needs roughly the same amount of food, etc. What's different between people is the amount of money they have.

      So everyone values water the same amount (i.e. I'll die and my family will die if we don't have enough water) but not everyone is able to pay the same amount. So by price gouging a basic human need like water, what you're actually saying is that poor people deserve to die because they're poor.

      My radical leftist, counter hot take, is that poor people don't deserve to die. Maybe, the government should provide assistance to people in emergency situations like this? Maybe, human lives are more important than company profits or market efficiency?

      [–]Funny-Difficulty-750 0 points1 point  (0 children)

      The biggest mistake we have ever made is trying to attach morality to economic systems that are founded upon the basic principle that everybody would act rationally and in their own self interest.

      [–]QuestionThings2 0 points1 point  (0 children)

      What if someone who actually needs it doesn't have that much?

      [–]Spare-Plum 0 points1 point  (0 children)

      Retard take. A disaster is not something where the free market operates cleanly and efficiently - you can't just take a supply/demand curve to this scenario and assume that it will work best. In reality the supply moves slower in response for commodities like food and water than what you would expect - especially in a disaster scenario. This can cause people to get priced out and literally die since they aren't able to afford necessities by the time the market corrects itself

      [–]workaholic828 0 points1 point  (0 children)

      Price gauging allocates resources based on who has the most money, not based on who needs it most. I can’t really get on board with saying that’s efficiently allocating them

      [–]Separate_Cranberry33 0 points1 point  (0 children)

      Price gouging during a disaster allows people who can afford the inflated prices to get the resources whether they need them or not. While the people who really need them probably had their house washed out into the Atlantic and have no means of paying the inflated prices. I guess people who starve or die from exposure just didn’t really want that food and those heat blankets.

      [–]ChidiWithExtraFlavor 0 points1 point  (0 children)

      Fuck you, son.

      Signed, everyone else.

      [–]Covidpandemicisfake 0 points1 point  (0 children)

      The problem is that price gouging FEELS immoral and greedy and few people can see that it’s an economic mechanism that benefits the most people.

      That's exactly it. Too many people acting like children and being driven by their emotions on important matters.

      [–]Psychological-Roll58 0 points1 point  (0 children)

      The people with the most money already had the most access to security and resources, now the poor without easy access in the first place are reduced to minimal access. In what world does someone with more money deserve clean water in a crisis more than the group overall.

      [–]G102Y5568 0 points1 point  (0 children)

      You can also make the argument that having your customers die because they can't afford your product is not only immoral, but also bad business logic.

      Building customer rapport is a part of business. That's why businesses often do counterintuitive things, like offer return policies or free samples. handing out supplies for free during a disaster is one such good policy that will make any grateful family a lifetime loyal customer, if you are literally the only company that offered them anything at the time.

      [–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

      You understand the disposable incomes are not equal right? That price gouging just means that resources get allocated to those that need them the least if prices rise dramatically?

      Is this serious lol?

      Not to mention, when prices rise from a disaster, the “stickiness” of prices usually persists well after the supply chain or demand concerns have been quelled. This is how contracts work in many industries. “We’ll buy X at price Y for 1 year”.

      Free market economics are overwhelmingly the laziest approach to resource allocation, ensuring that the wealthy never lose access to their desired goods. Which is good for them, but largely bad for everyone else.

      [–]claytonkbMurray Rothbard 0 points1 point  (0 children)

      The price of every good not on the market is infinite. Price-gouging is a price cut from refusing to sell.

      [–]misterme987 0 points1 point  (0 children)

      This would probably be true in a free market, but the existing system doesn't approximate a free market at all.

      [–]Electrical-Spare1684 0 points1 point  (0 children)

      Price gouging does not allocate resources to those who “value them most” you dingus. It allocates them to the rich, since they can afford to pay the inflated prices. 

      All you’re doing is saying “screw the poor”. This isn’t an earth shattering idea. 

      [–]turribledood 0 points1 point  (0 children)

      If you are too stupid to distinguish "need" from "means to afford" then sure, but I would suggest not being that stupid.

      [–]ZeroBrutus 0 points1 point  (0 children)

      This only works if all potential consumers have access to the same resources to allocate. Then yes, individual priorities and needs would dictate allocation. If half the group that has an absolute need for a product (like clean water) are simply priced out, then those who need it have no access to it at all, while those with abundant wealth would be able to casually consume in excess of need.

      It's an economic mechanism that ensures supply remains available to those of wealth, with no consideration of the needs of those at the bottom of the economic scale.

      [–]00010a 0 points1 point  (0 children)

      What about gasoline? You wanna escape the hurricane in Florida, and I own the fill stations in your area? Say hello to 30 bucks a gallon, baby

      [–]albert768 0 points1 point  (0 children)

      Agreed. High prices in a hurricane or natural disaster stricken area also reflect the risk that the seller takes to bring the resources there, the risk of destruction en route, etc. Transporting goods to an area stricken by natural disaster is a high risk endeavor - and providers must be compensated for that risk, otherwise they'll simply choose not to sell or sell them somewhere else. As with everything, the best solution to high prices is high prices. The alternative - no resources at all - is so much worse.

      If I'm an airline CEO, and the FAA told me I can't charge higher airfares to compensate for the risk to my aircraft and crew of flying into a literal disaster zone (might as well be a war zone), I would simply stop flying there for that time period. It's a matter of simple incentives - there are plenty of places I can fly my aircraft to without all the risk that comes with flying into a recently flooded airport in a disaster area. If I operated a store in that area and similar price controls were put in place, I'd simply stop ordering inventory in the weeks leading up to the hurricane and just close up shop during hurricane season. In both instances there would be less supplies getting to that area.

      And this bring me back to - define "price gouging". Give me a number. What premium to average prices pre-disaster adjusted for the additional cost incurred in providing the resources in such an area constitutes "price gouging"?

      [–]MyCarIsAGeoMetro 0 points1 point  (0 children)

      I am OK with this.  When your home floods, I will remember you charged me $20 for a bottle of water the last time and set my rescue price on my boat as $10k.  

      [–]-dreamingfrog- 0 points1 point  (0 children)

      Proof that econ and business programs need to include ethics courses taught by actual professionals.

      [–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

      Pretty cold-blooded take, however logical it might or might not. But I’m sure you’re proud of yourself

      [–]dokewick26 0 points1 point  (0 children)

      Tell it to my dirty butt, lacking toilet paper...

      /S

      [–]Sea-Scientist3469 0 points1 point  (0 children)

      “raising prices helps people” is one of most amusingly horrible statements that I’ve seen on this subreddit

      The gist of this post is that companies will only increase supplies if it’s really profitable for them, so we have to raise prices so it is sufficiently profitable for them to increase supply in disaster areas

      [–]Sea-Scientist3469 0 points1 point  (0 children)

      “Higher prices shows how there is a low amount of supply”

      Bro is the only way for companies and capitalists to see a low amount of supply high prices and not the fact that a disaster is happening and that there is rubble on the streets

      [–]skb239 0 points1 point  (0 children)

      What a brain dead take. The people who can pay for resources aren’t necessarily the ones who “need” those resources. Elasticity of supply is the problem.