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[–]TwoIdleHands 916 points917 points  (44 children)

How are other women treating you? According to a friend of mine everyone treated her worse once she gained weight.

[–]effiequeenme 497 points498 points  (29 children)

i can confirm. when i was at my heaviest, i thought people were less engaged with me because i was aging out. when i lost weight everyone was trying to be my friend again.

it's pretty sickening to have this tangible measure of the difference in memory. i'm very skeptical of any kind of perceived mind reading, by the way. the differences were night and day and i'm talking like zero strangers attempting to initiate a conversation with me for a year into daily, usually multiple times, enough that i had to recalibrate my ability to disengage because i don't have enough time to talk to everyone.

men and women.

[–]Much_Comfortable_438 178 points179 points  (6 children)

Unfortunately, society has tied our "worth" to our appearance.

Fucking shitty.

[–]dirk_funk 78 points79 points  (1 child)

my dad spent most of my teen years telling me everyone hates fat people and that nobody will ever love me. (and i am a guy)

[–]Much_Comfortable_438 40 points41 points  (0 children)

Sorry that happened to you.

Your worth as a person is not tied to your weight.

Sending an Internet hug 🫂!

[–]macabre_irony 27 points28 points  (2 children)

And the even shittier thing is that we are all susceptible to it. Even when think we are treating everyone equally our subconscious nudges us towards being more on guard with someone that looks threatening, less nice to someone who looks unfriendly where maybe they really aren't unfriendly but actually just perceived that way.

[–]GraceOfTheNorth 7 points8 points  (1 child)

It seems to be a biological thing, even very young babies show less engagement with overweight people. Scientists have theorized it may be connected to innate fear of unequal splitting of food in the tribe.

[–]BERNITA 45 points46 points  (4 children)

TW: weight mentioned

I've had a weird, almost opposite experience as an adult. The vast majority of people in my region are overweight/obese, including most of my friends. I'm not super skinny, but I don't fall into those categories. My overweight female friends only wanted to hang out with me when I was heavier, and I notice from their sm pics that they only seem to hangout with people who appear to match their body type. They make excuses when I try to set something up. And these are people I've been friends with since middle school! And now it seems like only my non-overweight friends want to hang out. Maybe it's just coincidental, but it makes me sad and wonder what I'm doing wrong.

Strangers, however, are a different story. I definitely fade into the background and am not noticed or paid as much attention to from both men and women when I'm at a higher weight. Can't win mo matter what weigh I guess!

[–]WontTellYouHisName 55 points56 points  (1 child)

A friend of mine had the surgery where they put a band around your stomach, I don't remember what it's called, and has lost 100 pounds.

In lots of ways this is much better: her knees and ankles and feet don't hurt anymore (sometimes, but not every day), she doesn't get tired as fast. She started walking on the hiker/biker trail near he house, and at first she could only go a few hundred meters and then back to the car, but she can walk a 5k now.

But some of her friends and family have started treating her badly. They will insist that she have cake for dessert even after she says she doesn't want any. She says that her sister yelled at her something like "Now you lost all that weight you think you're better than us!" And she understands, when she was very heavy she pictured all the skinny people judging her all the time. She doesn't judge anyone, she knows how hard it is to lose weight as well as anyone, she had surgery because she couldn't lose weight.

She says it's really painful how doing something for her health has driven people away. On the other hand, she's made some friends walking on the trail.

I guess this is another way our society is getting so divided up into separate groups that all look at each other with suspicion.

[–]orchidloom 8 points9 points  (0 children)

When I was vegetarian I got shit for it. When my hormones were messed up and I stopped eating sugar I got shit for it too - “have a piece of cake come on it won’t hurt you” My man is a rock climber and super fit. He gets shit just taking off his shirt at the pool as if he’s trying to show off. Insecure haters gonna be insecure and hate.

[–]katkriss 7 points8 points  (0 children)

The reason that your overweight female friends didn't want to see you as much when you were thinner is because it made them sad. I don't mean that you are at fault for making them sad, I mean that they were no longer able to relate to you as a heavier person once you were a lighter person. It sucks, and I'm sorry that happened to you.

[–]WandaDobby777 7 points8 points  (10 children)

My experience with women while yo-yoing my weight was a little different. When I was heavier, I had more girlfriends but they made fun of the weight. Definitely a ton of “it’s just a joke. Why are you so sensitive?” moments.” When I lost the weight, there was open hostility, nobody would let me near when their boyfriend was there and one girl actually destroyed my carpet and my only shoes before poisoning me. Feels like I can’t win.

[–]=^..^=DragonflyGrrl 11 points12 points  (9 children)

Wait.. whaaaatttt??? That took a fucking turn! Are you okay now?

[–]WandaDobby777 6 points7 points  (8 children)

I’m great now. Thank you for asking. She had untreated BPD and was crazy jealous. I didn’t think she was THAT jealous, though.

[–]=^..^=DragonflyGrrl 2 points3 points  (7 children)

That's good to hear, and I'm very glad you weren't hurt worse! Man, untreated BPD can be truly scary..

May she never cross paths with you again!

[–]WandaDobby777 2 points3 points  (6 children)

I hope not too. I feel bad sometimes but I kind of responded by publicly dragging all of her skeletons out of the closet.

[–]=^..^=DragonflyGrrl 2 points3 points  (5 children)

Dude, she poisoned you. She well deserved that and more. Don't feel bad. It's a sign that you're a good person that you do, but seriously, let that shit go. 💜

How did she poison you, if you don't mind talking about it? (I totally get it if you do mind)

[–]WandaDobby777 2 points3 points  (4 children)

It was her 21st birthday and she wanted to practice making margaritas but claimed there was no margarita salt, so she mixed in regular, iodized kitchen salt. It was FOUL. Unbelievably salty. I wanted to barf but it was her birthday, her first effort and I’m an alcoholic, so pouring it out and hurting her feelings wasn’t an option. About 15-20 minutes later, I had this horrible wave of pain crash into my brain, my vision was swimming, I was swelling up fast enough and big enough to look pregnant, the thirst was unquenchable and my heart kept alternating between racing and completely pausing.

Went to the E.R. and while I was there, I flatlined and ended up in the bathroom with my insides just pouring out of me. Doctors said my sodium levels were about 20x higher than they should have been. She had supposedly made herself the same drink and had no symptoms whatsoever. Didn’t even acknowledge that it had to be the drink or apologize. I had a crazy impossible time convincing my father that it was a sodium overdose and not alcohol poisoning.

[–]=^..^=DragonflyGrrl 2 points3 points  (3 children)

Oh my God, that is incredibly scary. I'm so glad you went to the ER, that could've been REALLY bad (I mean, not that it wasn't already!) What an insane asshole!

Were you able to show some hospital paperwork to your dad, or have him talk to the doc or something?? I can absolutely see my parents reacting that way in the same situation. How frustrating.. and on top of everything else!! Gah.

[–]i--make--lists 17 points18 points  (0 children)

That's such shit.

[–]JoshuaSweetvale 0 points1 point  (1 child)

I think that's just 'humans' unless NB and intersex people are saints but that's probably due to trauma empathy.

[–]little-bird 169 points170 points  (11 children)

not OP - but after a bad breakup I cut off most of my hair and dressed way more comfy/casual (lots of jeans, tshirts, boots, oversized jackets). there was also quite a bit of weight fluctuation.

I’ve never been hit on by other women that much in my life! I didn’t even realize what was happening at first, I thought I was just having an odd streak of good luck by running into so many sweet and friendly ladies who kept smiling at me and saying hi for no reason 🤪 but eventually I caught on as I got more obvious approaches from them.

[–]uraniumstingray 19 points20 points  (4 children)

Damn it I dress like that and women won’t hit on me 😭

[–]little-bird 18 points19 points  (0 children)

probably depends a lot on location, I’m in a big city that’s super LGBT+ friendly. I never got hit on while I looked the same in the nearby suburbs, small towns, and midsize cities.

[–]fire_thorn 12 points13 points  (0 children)

My daughter absolutely never notices when women are hitting on her. I tell her later and she's just shocked and then she's worried that she hurt someone's feelings by not realizing it.

[–]kv4268 4 points5 points  (1 child)

Gotta add in some subtle queer flagging. Key ring clipped to your belt loop. A side shave haircut.

[–]Devanyani 2 points3 points  (0 children)

The older I get, the more I seem to gravitate towards these kinds of things, totally without knowing it. Then I read that my thumb rings and tank tops and keyring are gay. 🤣😂 Now I really want to get that side shave I have been thinking about because women never hit on me, and I am done done done with men.

[–]PreparationShort9387 1166 points1167 points  (64 children)

Most men will treat you like air or an annoying acquaintance they just stumbled into. They waste zero energy on women they find unfuckable. That's why the beauty industry is so famous among aging women and why older women feel invisible.  

You have two options:   

 1. Become fuckable again and get the illusion of being treated like a person again.  

  1. Don't give a damn, ignore these sexist men just like they ignore you and stop wanting to be seen by them.  

[–]ultravioletturtle[S] 326 points327 points  (43 children)

The urge to become fuckable again is reeeeaaally strong godamn. Ahhhh

[–]PreparationShort9387 586 points587 points  (15 children)

Because being fuckable gives us the nice illusion of being seen not like an object but as a whole person. We need to remember that this is and always will be an illusion.

[–]ribcracker 82 points83 points  (3 children)

That’s a good point. Making yourself look sexually attractive is like a placebo for yourself even if you know the truth.

[–]effiequeenme 54 points55 points  (1 child)

for me the social utility outweighs the sickening clarity. getting a job, for example, is much easier when people want to talk to you. and i say talk instead of fuck because women seem to be more engaged, also.

[–]fallindominoes 11 points12 points  (0 children)

That’s cause it isn’t totally about fuckability. It’s also about how well people perceive you to be performing your gender. Simply being really naturally attractive is enough, but most people are closer to average, and at that point if you aren’t performing your gender “right”, men and women alike will in large part be colder toward you. Generally the treatment is worse from the “opposite” gender because of the fuckability issue, and that is usually much worse from the male end as well. Just not great. A lot of monkey behaviors creeping up to torment us.

[–]ultravioletturtle[S] 183 points184 points  (8 children)

You would think being treated the say we are when we are fuckable would make the object reality more noticeable but it didn't emotionally hit me I was a toy until I was no longer being played with funny that.....weirdly women are being very nice to me which is the exact Inverse of my life experience.

[–]PreparationShort9387 150 points151 points  (7 children)

Women are so much more valuable for your life! 

[–][deleted] 7 points8 points  (0 children)

Holy smokes. What a way to put it.

[–]pantherawireless0 6 points7 points  (0 children)

How do you convince yourself of that everyday though ? With the vast amounts of porn and choads that harass and threaten you online ?? It requires a massive blow to your pride to do anything for them. Especially because most of them are butt ugly. I mean that alone is enough to be indifferent to their existence. Sure you coexist with them IRL but they're not even attractive most of the time.

[–]ThrowRADel 106 points107 points  (0 children)

Please remember that there's two ways to dehumanize someone, and one of them is putting you on a pedestal. You are not a vase, you do not exist to be decorative. You're a real person.

These men are showing you their true colours; I promise you don't want someone so shallow (because they'll never really see you or care about your inner life), and there will be opportunities to meet people at uni that you really gel with.

[–]persePHOreth 61 points62 points  (0 children)

See the issue is, the ones that "listen" to your ideas and are willing to talk to you when you're "fuckable," they're not actually listening or engaging in conversation with you. They're condescending to you, placating you, pretending you're interesting because they only see you as a fuck object.

The men who talk to you now, pay attention to you now, those are the ones that are seeing and interacting with you as a fellow human being. And yes, sadly that's a lot less men than when you look "fuckable."

The ones that switched up and are ignoring you now, they were never willing to talk to you or listen to you. They saw you as an object to conquer and fuck. As much as you enjoyed the attention, isn't it better to weed out the assholes, or in this case, allow them to weed themselves?

[–]BysshePls 52 points53 points  (1 child)

There is a 3rd option.

  1. Remain "unfuckable" and ward off shit people who think that way. You will attract people who value the person and not the looks.

[–]Neither-Chart5183 33 points34 points  (0 children)

Even if you are fuckable men will drop you as a friend if you reject them too many times or SA you out of frustration.

[–]moodynicolette1 16 points17 points  (0 children)

becoming fuckable doesnt mean they like you..

[–]uhhuh111 38 points39 points  (0 children)

Why? So some shallow losers give you attention? There are some men who are normal and will speak to any women, and there's other people you can be friends with aside from men who only treat women they find attractive like actual humans..

[–]thiscouldbemassive 16 points17 points  (1 child)

It’s funny. I was so happy when men stopped seeing me as fuckable and I went invisible. As an invisible person I can still ask for and get directions, but I can also go where I like and be left alone. When I was fuckable, I knew those guys wanted something from me when they gave me attention. And I never wanted to give it to them. Now all that awkwardness is gone. There is no sexual tension between me and my male friends and acquaintances. My friends treat me as a person, and strangers just fuck off and leave me be.

[–]Helplessly_hoping 4 points5 points  (0 children)

This is my dream!

[–]k8t13 22 points23 points  (5 children)

i decided to grow out my leg hair and also just look generally very queer (people assume i'm a lesbian). i've noticed a big shit in a lot of men that i'm not friends with. they are definitely a lot less engaged. the men i am friends with though, they still treat me like a person. they still value my opinion and actively listen and go out of their way to interact with me.

find the people who aren't caught up on looking like a cis straight hot person and you'll find what you need. you can also be a hot weirdo (my vibe lol) or a hot hostel backpacker or whatever other way you want to describe yourself

[–]ThatLilAvocado 18 points19 points  (4 children)

Men don't really care if you present "weird" as long as you compensate with some "hot" stuff.

[–]k8t13 2 points3 points  (3 children)

haha true but we all like to look at pretty things (subjective and also should be taken lightly <3). it is funny to me when men find me hot and then get to the fact i don't shave and i can see their brain reboot trying to figure out what they're feeling. it's even better bc i genuinely grow more hair than most cis men

[–]ThatLilAvocado 2 points3 points  (2 children)

Yeah but at the end of the day are still being just an object for their fantasies just like any cis straight woman. And I say this as a hairy often non-feminine woman who has experienced men "glitching" for a couple of seconds over hairy legs and pits. They'll just put us in a slightly different box and use whatever traditional hot stuff we present as usual. You get fetishized just like alt hairy OF models and a lot of them feel "proud" of enjoying sexually women who try to rebel.

[–]k8t13 1 point2 points  (1 child)

someone will always sexual someone else in an unwanted way. what are we supposed to do about it? i refuse to let someone who can't keep it casual impact my daily life and function.

it is definitely negative a lot of the time and can feel overwhelmingly sad that a lot of men are creeps but having that be my driving force for interacting with the world isn't helping me. i'd rather take it in stride and be comfortable in myself. if that pushes someone's boundary for who they thought was attractive or not for the day then that's their day, not mine

edit: relating it to fetishizing OF models is feeling very spirally. again yes obvi there is always a creep. but there definitely isn't any need for that to be any of my business, and i don't want someone even well meaning to decide men are fetishizing me

[–]pantherawireless0 17 points18 points  (0 children)

What's the point if you have to do something so disgusting though ? If you have to perform for them it's like willingly eating something rotten and putrid for approval from psychos that just kicked your cat. They are swine. Why would you WANT attention from them? Unless your thing is to live like someone's joke source of entertainment ?

Men are ass ugly most of the time anyway. It's like walking past gremlins. I need more of this WHY ?

[–]Devanyani 4 points5 points  (0 children)

I went through this. It was hard. Gained 70lbs and went from being a first class citizen with all the Pretty Girl perks (they are everywhere) to people acting like I didn't exist at all. But I got older and my libido died, and now I look "unfeminine" out of spite. A 70yo woman once taught me that old ladies can get away with anything. So I'm going to capitalize on my invisibility and when I'm in my 70s, start shoplifting and doing whatever I want, because there will be no consequences. 😉

[–]Marston_vc 3 points4 points  (1 child)

Yall call it “being fuckable” but I mean, isn’t it more just “being attractive”? Like, doesn’t everyone want to be attractive and to be around attractive people?

I’m only saying this because I feel the whole “be fuckable” thing is ironically degrading and also reductive in a sub that’s supposed to be women positive.

Just saying that I think it’s important to have respect for yourself if you want others to respect you. Like, absolutely take action to improve yourself. And for sure, lot of people are as simple as this. But I think it’s a form of mental harm if you think everyone is like this.

[–]Humble-Complaint-608 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I think it’s a cope because if switching to attractive it’s like harder to deal with

[–]PreparationShort9387 18 points19 points  (0 children)

We women are the most important pillars of every civilisation. Ape brains have no relevance for our lives and issue to decide over our humanness. They try, of course. We need to stop caring about the standards irrelevant people hold us to.

[–]noNUNnone 41 points42 points  (2 children)

I dont think the way your treated when viewed as "fuckable" is being treated like a person...its being treated like an object...its disingenuous.

[–]PreparationShort9387 20 points21 points  (0 children)

I said it is an ILLUSION. She will never be treated like a person.

[–]_yoshimi_ 11 points12 points  (0 children)

That’s the point that the commenter was making.

[–]LucccyVanPelt 24 points25 points  (0 children)

Regarding 1: wouldn't she get treated like an object that men want to fuck? Rarely think men see a living human being behind our boobs and butts.

Personally I think it's relieving when men don't objectify me (now pink hair, glasses, chill clothes instead of blonde, lenses and 'normal' clothes). Feel much more safe and myself, not being ogled all the time is refreshing :)

[–]ultravioletturtle[S] 24 points25 points  (4 children)

I need do go places where iam listened to regardless of presentation there's an lgbtq society in my college maybe they will be more accepting there

[–]PreparationShort9387 42 points43 points  (3 children)

There are plenty of decent men who really like to chat with boomer moms or grandmas, with neighbors and with overweight women. Being part of a lgbtq community doesn't make one decent. Many members are really shallow and objectify others, just as straight people do.  

Respect for women is based on one's individual upbringing and values.

[–]ultravioletturtle[S] 9 points10 points  (2 children)

I feel that being I was just kinda hoping maybe that would be the case even though the pedestal lgbtq communities put women and feminity on makes me.....sometimes even more uncomfortable like a straight man won't say slay step on me mommy right off the bat (they may but I haven't had that experience as much then in lgbtq spaces) I think maybe it's cus lgbtq spaces are full of people who identify as safe for women cus there not straight cis men (the horror) so of course we are all gonna have a nice big discussion of how great my tits look in this dress like its normal at least straight cis guys can be aware of the line and that they aren't allowed to Cross it. But because in lgbtq places We love women and feminity so much the line dosent even get to exist.

[–]PreparationShort9387 8 points9 points  (0 children)

You name it. LGBTQ often disregard boundaries and make normal activities sexual. Just like they randomly talk about your tits. Objectifying and praising a pretty woman is the same as men ignoring an ugly woman.

[–]the_9th_crayon 11 points12 points  (1 child)

I’d argue those men don’t treat you like a person at all…just an object to fuck, though they’ll pretend you’re a person up until they get what they want.

[–]PreparationShort9387 7 points8 points  (0 children)

I literally said the person-thought is an illusion! 

[–]nope100500 2 points3 points  (0 children)

It's not like men treat each other any different. That's just the default.

[–]No_Interest1616 141 points142 points  (0 children)

I hadn't noticed how differently people (not just men) treated me I presented less attractive (think nerdy) until I finally re-upped my contact lenses and started wearing those again. I had been wearing these glasses that were too big for my face and very nerdy looking if I didn't have my hair just right (which it never is). But they were all I had for a couple years. 

Now that I have contacts, people are suddenly nice and friendly with me again. I'm not being ignored as much and I don't get that weird facial expression from people that says "what's wrong with you." It's pretty sad. 

[–][deleted] 127 points128 points  (3 children)

I’ve been unattractive my entire life. The bright side is that you get to see people’s real personalities.

[–]unionbusterbob 221 points222 points  (6 children)

Most men aren't searching for a women as a friend. They are searching for a woman as a partner, on some level (from hookup to wife).

[–]Rainbowdark96 61 points62 points  (5 children)

Yes yes and yes. Hence society have a widely accepted term "friendzone". 

[–]elolvido 49 points50 points  (3 children)

yea but they aren’t interested in making friends with you at all, by and large. it’s less ‘friendzone’ and more ‘….’

[–]QueenScorp 47 points48 points  (2 children)

This. Generally the term "friend zone" isn't used when you are friends with someone that you are content being friends with. It is only used in the context of women wanting to be friends with someone who wants to fuck them and being seen as "denying" the man.

[–]The Everything KegelSaxamaphooone 29 points30 points  (1 child)

Or the “fuck zone” - when a man has little to no intention of actually being a platonic friend and just pretends to be a woman’s friend while they wait to shoot their shot.

Lots of women discover they’ve been fuck zoned when they have a romantic relationship end and their “friends” see their chance.

[–]QueenScorp 15 points16 points  (0 children)

Yep. Been there, done that. The last guy I dated actually kept telling me how much he wanted to remain friends but all he really wanted was a fuck buddy which is not what I wanted. When that became clear, we stopped speaking. He was the last straw honestly, I no longer date at all.

[–]hajaco92 72 points73 points  (1 child)

Yeah I mean... Men sort of think we owe them eye candy as penance for our existence in a public space. You can either cater to that or just ignore it and make friends with people who don't care what you look like. It does suck, but that's kinda the world we live in. I'm a lot older than you and this is something that will be true all your life- how you look and present will absolutely change how people treat you. I don't like it, but it's more or less true everywhere.

[–]series_hybrid 59 points60 points  (0 children)

When men were paying attention to you before, they didn't care about what you thought, they pretended to care because they were flirting with you.

[–]_weedkiller_ 45 points46 points  (0 children)

Tbh I present more masc because of this. I just want to be invisible to them. It is a stark difference in how you’re treated though. It sucks.

[–]thelouisfanclub 60 points61 points  (5 children)

To echo what others have said, these men are not worth the time. The flip side of this is that if you are "fuckable" and treat them in a friendly way they will interpret that as sexual interest. The only way to deal with them is with cold and disinterested politeness unless they show they can engage with you like a normal human being.

It's sad to think that if you were a man, maybe you could have been friends with some of these guys, maybe they would even be fascinating people and loyal friends. But it's not possible in this life because their brains are cooked when it comes to women

[–]Exowolfe 25 points26 points  (2 children)

I had a situation like this at the gym yesterday and felt a bit bad as my go-to is to be pleasant but keep things very short with guys.

I went at a later-than-usual time so my bf wasn't with me and was headed to my car when a fellow gymgoer around my age struck up a conversation/introduced himself. I was pleasant and introduced myself, asked if he had a good workout, made a bit of small talk and then kinda cut off the convo with "well, have a great afternoon!" and got in my car. I could tell he wanted to talk longer but I've conditioned myself to pleasantly escape conversations like this.

I felt bad because I don't want to discourage guys from being outgoing/trying to make a friend (or meet a potential date) and I recognize it's very vain of me to assume he was coming at things from an "ask this girl out" angle. On the other hand, 99% of the time I let this conversation run its course, the guy gets weird when I don't want to meet for coffee/work out together/etc. Ughhhh.

[–][deleted] 42 points43 points  (1 child)

The thing is, they're not really interested in what the femme women are saying either, they just like their attention. They are still not valued by a man who would treat you differently than them.

[–]MindTheGap24 9 points10 points  (0 children)

This!!! The women you see getting “treated better” isn’t real and it is an illusion, these men typically put on an act when they want to fuck a woman or get something out of a woman. The good thing about being viewed as unattractive to them is they’re already telling on themselves, you don’t have to try to decipher them or go through the illusion and get hurt.

[–][deleted] 52 points53 points  (4 children)

Pretty privilege is a thing. You lost the male gaze, for what it's worth.

[–]ThrowawayTink2 9 points10 points  (1 child)

Sampling size of 1, but that was my experience as well, and I'm in my 50's. In my 30's I was in a relationship that made me miserable and I gained a ton of weight and stopped caring about being 'pretty'.

Throughout my late 30's and into my 40's I was pretty much invisible. Not just to men. To everyone. Other women, the people at the paint counter at home depot, workers at the deli. Like..everyone. It was disconcerting and I thought it was a part of getting older I had to get used to.

Welp, at 47 I dumped the bad relationship. Lost the weight. Bought new clothes (because I lost like 4 sizes and had no choice). Slowly started caring about appearance again. And...holy cow. It wasn't getting older. It was being fat. Good looking guys in their 20's now hold doors for me and smile. The postman chats a few minutes every day. I walk into the store and get "Hi! How can I help you today?". People of all ages and genders meet my eyes and smile if I walk past them on the sidewalk. It is just...eye opening, how differently you are treated, by all members of society, when you are 'thin' and 'attractive'. Sigh.

[–]ultravioletturtle[S] 5 points6 points  (0 children)

Jesus christ thats fucking depressing

[–]abhikavi 21 points22 points  (0 children)

I had an extremely heavy friend in college.

At some point, I noticed that a guy we were hanging out with was treating her the exact same way he treated me; he held open doors, asked her questions, listened to her responses.

And it took that for me to realize that none of the other guys we spent time with did that. Everyone else had varying levels of excluding her. Some outright treated her like she was invisible. I was embarrassed that I hadn't noticed before; it was so blatant once I saw it.

If I'd been smart, I would've cut all contact with everyone except that one dude. They didn't see me as a person, either, they saw me as fuckable. That might feel like better treatment, but at its core, it isn't. It's an illusion, and one that's dangerous and misleading.

I'd suggest paying attention to how people treat you and using it to separate the wheat from the chaff.

It is depressing. Especially with the sheer numbers. There are simply not that many good people who will treat you like a fellow human being, regardless of your appearance. (And that's before we even get into the incels and other men who really, honest to god hate women. Their numbers are pretty damn depressing too.)

But you'll be happier if you have a smaller group of better people.

[–]Dry_Box_517 8 points9 points  (1 child)

Yup, a LOT of men will only be polite to women they want to fuck

It's pathetic and disgusting

[–]toodleroo 6 points7 points  (0 children)

men just don't care what I have to say anymore

To be fair, they didn't care what you had to say before, they just faked it cause they were attracted to you.

[–]Aivendil 28 points29 points  (2 children)

It depends a lot on the setting. Campus tour guide was likely there to try to flirt with fresh girls. He would have just as easily ignored a male student. Same often goes for other interactions. Men are not keen on spending energy on a woman they don’t find attractive when they just met her. The same way they are not keen on spending energy on other men. Stupid, I know.

It works out after some time spent together and having some common interests. Although it will never be as much energy as they are willing to spend on a romantic interest. There are jokes about this in many movies where men often start neglecting even their existing friend circle when they have a new crush.

[–]unionbusterbob 10 points11 points  (1 child)

There are jokes about this in many movies where men often start neglecting even their existing friend circle when they have a new crush.

One of my close guy friends tells me that whenever a male friend gets a new girlfriend or the relationship advances (i.e. get engaged), he guarantees he will not see them for at least 6 months.

[–]PreparationShort9387 4 points5 points  (0 children)

Because every lazy evening with girlfriend is deeper and more meaningful than the average guy friendship.

[–][deleted] 12 points13 points  (0 children)

I have the opposite experience. In fact it's one of the biggest barriers in my attempt to lose weight, because men leaving me alone is probably the biggest plus of being plus sized.

[–]Velaria000 4 points5 points  (0 children)

Back a couple of years ago, my wife (then girlfriend) was by far the most femme presenting between the two of us. I was more masc presenting than I am now, so we were very different looking.

We went to get her a new car at the dealership, and I went just to be along for the ride, pretty much. It was her transaction and her purchase alone. We weren't married, so I had nothing to do with buying it. I was just there.

The whole time, the salesman kept talking to ME instead of her. I had to remind him that it wasn't my car and that he needed to speak to her, not me. He kept reverting back to me every so often, and I probably said "tell her, not me" at least three times. She is completely capable of handling it herself, but he naturally wanted to discuss things with me for whatever reason. We're almost positive it's because he saw me as the more masculine one.

That isn't the only example we have like that either. People seem to automatically assume that I'm the more capable one, if they don't know us. It's ridiculous. Just because she's more femme than me doesn't mean she's any less intelligent and capable of comprehending complicated things.

[–]thecooliestone 19 points20 points  (1 child)

I was always overweight, but I cut my hair intentionally to make men leave me alone.

An older girl said "If you look like a lesbian they wont' cat call you on the way from the library" because we had to walk past the frat houses to get back to the freshman dorms from the library. I did, and all of a sudden the weird comments stopped.

Men want to fuck you so they pretend to tolerate you. If they don't want to fuck you then you get to see their true colors.

[–]MiniaturePhilosopher 25 points26 points  (2 children)

This is one of those things that people don’t seem to believe until it happens to them. Men don’t even want to acknowledge the existence of women they’re not interested in fucking. Most men think so little of women that they view our only worth to society in looking the way they want us to and seeming fuckable. Why would you want their attention when their attention is another form of disrespect? Pretty is not the rent that you have to pay for being born female.

[–]Coffee Coffee CoffeeMystressSeraph 15 points16 points  (1 child)

Unfortunately you actually said it yourself, "so that they pretend to care."

You know know it's pretence, they never cared. And the ones that do care, aren't phased by how you appear, they genuinely care about what you think, or who you are.

I have a few chronic conditions, and about 25 years ago, I gained a ridiculous amount of weight in a very short time due to a medication I was taking. Because of everything else on my plate, moving enough to shift it with exercise is impossible. But I dress very well - my style, in cuts flattering to the figure I have - not the one I had 🙄

I felt truly invisible, in a 'romantic attraction' sense ... BUT, after a while, I also decided that, if I did did lose the amount of weight I really wanted to (for my health, and just to get back to roughly where I had been, give or take 10kgs) would I trust any interest from men who I already knew? If they weren't interested in who I was at the weight I'm stuck at? Why would they suddenly change their minds, except for viewing me as a body, and not a person!

I get why you are so shocked and depressed by the whole experience, but you are learning something incredibly valuable right now, something that other girls/young women will eventually learn the much harder way - these particular guys do not see you as people ... and you have seen it for yourself.

You have the very clear choice now - go back to the way you looked before, knowing what you now know, that the attention is a ploy to sleep with you, and that is the sum total of your value to these guys, OR really think about this, lean into your own style, work on your confidence, on your education, on your interests (working on your confidence, knowing your worth is a vital life skill) and know that the guys who then pay attention to you, who want to get to know you are very likely actually interested in you as a person, not just a number.

Almost every woman learns this the hard way, some really suffer before they realise what too many men are truly like, add all the tatebots (and that vile influence on men and women) and being conventionally pretty/"fuckable" will get your heart broken, and your spirit damaged.

You just got a peek behind the curtain ... you get to decide what you do with that information. Conform, and understand that you are choosing to be devalued, or adapt and grow into someone people will want to know because you are genuine, yourself, and truly comfortable in your own skin.

Just remember, those girls the guide was focussing on? They thought he actually cared about what they were thinking. You now know he had zero interest in who they were, and was solely interested in how they looked ... and how far his attention could get him.

It may not be an easy choice. But unlike the other girls, you are now aware of the 'rules' of the nasty little game being played. The game where sex is the 'prize,' women are just 'vending machines,' and guys pretend to be 'nice'/interested/attentive until they get what they want and move on, or get what they want, and keep some poor girl they don't even like, but who gives them what they want (as a girlfriend etc.)

Unless you change the rules, and even the game.

Edit: typos

[–]PreparationShort9387 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Wow great words 👏🏻 

[–]WifeOfSpock 3 points4 points  (0 children)

I went from 130lbs at 5’8” to 220lbs, and the difference in treatment was stark. I’m down to 170lbs, and some of that attention is back, but it made me remember how shitty that attention is too.

[–]sudden_crumpet 3 points4 points  (0 children)

Every woman experience this as we age. For some, who've been used to being very attractive to men, having the illusion break is devastating. You thought your CEO valued your opinion? Actually never. Maybe if you get a boob job and some facial filler. Better throw in a blonde wig, a mini skirt and a ton of make-up. Feel like a clown yet?

On the other hand we're not creeped on as much, which is a fantastic bonus!

[–][deleted] 4 points5 points  (0 children)

Don't put this on you, put this on them. They are showing that the ONLY reason they have any interest in talking to women at all is if they think they might be able to screw them or make them their girlfriend. They are telling on themselves a whole bunch here.

[–]intelligentplatonic 6 points7 points  (0 children)

And a lot of men are not even aware they are doing it.

[–]these_three_things 14 points15 points  (0 children)

Probably a bit of a hot take, but I’m a guy and the same thing happened to me. I was a big nerd growing up… huge glasses, scrawny, braces, bullied on the regular, the works. I was nearly invisible to women, but didn’t fully realize it. Once I went to college and got contact lenses, braces off, put on some muscle, I started getting all kinds of smiles and hellos from women I didn’t know. In friend groups women sought me out to talk to me, ask my opinion on things. I got invited to a lot of places. It made me really uncomfortable for a while, because I didn’t know how to handle the attention. I knew inside that I was still the same person, but I was being treated so differently on the basis of how I looked.

Later in life, when I gained maybe 50lbs, I noticed that women didn’t pay me much attention. Then I lost the weight and got fit again, and the attention increased.

I am NOT minimizing what women endure from men in this world, not trying to engage in whataboutism. I believe that women are held to much more demanding and unfair beauty standards, and are objectified to a much greater degree.

Really, my point is that there is a large segment of the population, both male and female, that respond more enthusiastically to attractive people. Some of this may be physiological, but a lot of the time it just comes down to what most of these other commenters have already explained… attractive people get more attention from people wanting to bed them. It’s a particular type of attention that it sounds like you can attain, if that’s what you want.

However, OP, I think a large degree of attention comes from confidence, regardless of gender. I have known countless people in my life, male and female, who were not considered attractive by the opposite sex, but who were so unstuck on themselves and fun to be around that they commanded others’ attention. They didn’t have to be the “life of the party” types… they just genuinely cared about other people and weren’t afraid to enjoy them fully. They didn’t constantly overthink and retreat into self-doubt (as I have been prone to do).

All that said, I guess my point is that you can, as others have said, try to make yourself more “fuckable” to get that type of attention. Or you can reject that. However, sometimes receiving attention comes from being fun and lifting the spirits of those around you… And after a life of folly and consequences, I would consider that the superior form of attention.

I will leave you with the advice that completely changed my life, back when I was incredibly socially awkward and didn’t know how to insert myself into groups. When I told a much older and wiser acquaintance of my problem, she told me this: wherever you go, almost always, someone else is feeling worse than you are. Someone else needs help, feels awkward, doesn’t fit in, is doubting themselves. If you find those people and seek to help them and build them up, you will always be rich in relationship. You will have the attention that really matters, and you likely won’t really miss the attention that doesn’t. The best way to build confidence is to realize that you are important—not because of how many men are attracted to you, but because your presence can truly make a difference to people.

Again, I don’t want to minimize the fact that this world is, in many ways, simply unfair to women. Especially in this way. I just wanted to present an option that I have not seen on this thread, if you should find it helpful. And best of luck.

[–]Vegetable-Smile-9838 4 points5 points  (0 children)

Welcome to the world of being unnatractive! It sucks here. 🙌

[–][deleted] 8 points9 points  (0 children)

Not being traditionally attractive is like that, hoping traditional people, who’s only sense of self worth is attraction, will no longer value you.

I’m sure you’re a very beautiful/handsome person in your own right, you just have to find other people who are like minded and you’ll be okay.

There’s probably an LGBTQ office on your campus, even if you don’t see yourself in that category, they’ll know what it’s like to be in that position

[–]the-pathless-woods 11 points12 points  (0 children)

At some point you will cease to be fuckable again or you will be that desperate 70yo trying to look 16. It’s sad. I wish I had just stopped trying to be fuckable at an earlier age and stopped valuing the opinion of people who only think with their dick.

[–]Misubi_Bluth 2 points3 points  (0 children)

I think the best option is to not give a fuck. I personally see it as a boon, but then again I don't like talking to people in public. I'm very much a "get my shit and get out" kind of person.

[–]Panzermensch911 2 points3 points  (0 children)

That's your chance to find the men who don't care about your visual fuckability. And you can be fairly certain that the men that overlook you now will cheat on their spouse when they get older.

[–]VitaminD20_ 2 points3 points  (0 children)

I was always thin or 'normal' my whole life then in my mid twenties I gained a lot of weight. Holy cow was I treated differently by EVERYONE. It was really depressing. Even making sure I was on point looking nice didn't matter. It was a very very obvious shift in how I was treated. Less smiles, less doors held open, less general interaction.

[–]Everythingisfinebut 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Men only pay attention to women they want to have sex with.

It's meaningless. You can act/dress feminine and yes, they'll talk to you again. But you'll know why! They don't take women seriously unless there is something in it for them.

[–]MelancholyBean 2 points3 points  (0 children)

I'm a naturally androgynous/masculine looking woman and I've noticed these days with the anti-trans propaganda as well that more people have an aversion to me and treat me poorly.

[–]TurbulentReview4085 14 points15 points  (4 children)

I gave up of being desfem because of this.  All my life I've been seen as an insect, only now men are being nicer to me, and even women (because they no longer suspect that I'm going to hit on them.) It sucks, but I feel the need to adapt. 

[–]ultravioletturtle[S] 15 points16 points  (0 children)

What's desfem?

[–]PreparationShort9387 3 points4 points  (2 children)

Desfem is another capitalist label that makes us a product or a wall we decorate. Just like goth, twink or waifu.

[–]No_Chair_2182 14 points15 points  (4 children)

They are treating you like a man. Men don’t give attention or comfort to other men because they don’t need it.

But the example you gave was a horny teenager or twenty year-old, so he’s likely to be all hormones and desperate for female attention and validation. Most people aren’t going to be so radical with how they treat you.

There’s also nothing wrong with appearing masculine. Most people might not be interested, but there are plenty of women who like that.

Your worth is so much more than your appearance. You should do what makes you happy but don’t think your only value is in your appearance.

[–]Kitchen_Victory_7964 32 points33 points  (3 children)

No, they treat other men much differently than they treat unfuckable women.

Unfuckable women are an ugly nuisance. Other men are a potential threat or potential buddies.

There’s a huuuuge difference.

[–]Shonuff_shogun 4 points5 points  (2 children)

How does one treat a random stranger as a nuisance? Just because someone isn’t flirting with you does not mean they are treating you like shit. And as far as men treating other men like competition…. What??? You’re making life solely about sex and attributing that to other people.

Any person treating you less than based on your physical features is obviously NOT a good person so why even give them the time of day?

[–]PreparationShort9387 3 points4 points  (0 children)

How they treat strangers as a nuisance? Men tend to make short answers and nervously look around as if they are embarrassed to be seen with the ugly woman. They try to get away from her and act as if they need to get distance between them and her. I witnessed this behaviour in many men.

[–]thinksmartspeakloud 10 points11 points  (3 children)

Yeah it is incredibly disorienting to transition from fuckable to unfuckable. I did the same thing by cutting my long normal brown hair short and dying it blue. Wow. I had a baseline for what I thought normal people were like kind of like basic respect and friendliness out in the grocery store or in the world or whatever but it all went away. First it was disheartening and then it became more eye-opening. I gradually transitioned back to normalcy because I was tired of the upkeep and maintenance my hair required, but I've never forgotten.

My practical advice would be to transition back to fuckable. This is because you need to make friends and allies in a new situation like college, you will literally need your social connections to succeed and you need to develop and hone social skills. I'm not saying conform like it's the Stepford Wives but I do think your life would be a little easier looking more normal and at least you have the luxury of being able to transition. You've learned a valuable life lesson though, people aren't as nice as they seem. When you are ugly and undesirable you see the true face of humanity. Never forget it.

[–]kakallas 4 points5 points  (0 children)

You definitely are asking OP to conform.

[–]P41nt3dg1rl 6 points7 points  (0 children)

Yeah, you’re “unfuckable” and therefore immaterial. 🥲

[–]Kpets 5 points6 points  (0 children)

Oh, so you discovered pretty privilege Yes, it’s real

[–][deleted] 2 points3 points  (0 children)

I like this posts topic but ffs woman, you're in college you need to use some punctuation. This massive run on sentence is unacceptable.

[–]nervouscomposure 2 points3 points  (0 children)

I definitely noticed a shift when I started presenting more masculine. I understand the urge to “go back” to being pretty - it’s easier and people are more pleasant. However, maybe take this opportunity to investigate the role of validation, specifically male validation, in your self image. It’s hard and I’m going through it myself. But I believe it’s worth it to find the people who truly like you for your personality AND think the way you present is cool. Shallow men ain’t it. Alternatively, starting college is hard, and wanting to make it easier for yourself is understandable.

[–]cragion 3 points4 points  (0 children)

That's just life. When I gained weight, women weren't going out of their way to talk to me anymore. When I was thin, women would noticeably go out of their way to talk to me, and some older ladies wanted me to date their daughter lol. It's important to mention too that when you're fat, it's also a sign that you're not taking care of yourself. It's like going outside with a stained shirt, if you're not taking care of your appearance, then many people will think less of you. I'm not saying it's right, but that's how it is. And, most of the attention people get from the opposite gender is sexual or attraction based so that's also why we're not getting the same attention lol

[–]PeaceAndRebellion 1 point2 points  (0 children)

There is a not insignificant amount of men who have zero interest in getting to know a woman they wouldn't potentially fuck or date. They do not view platonic relationships with women as having any worth to them, because to them you are a sexual and/or romantic object, not an equal. It's harsh and depressing, but that's what it is. My best advice would be to ignore them and focus on finding the good, genuine people of all genders who won't judge you on your appearance.

[–]pineapples9 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Dress like a man, men will treat you like they treat other men… this is how men interact with other men especially around prospective mates…

[–]MakimaGOAT 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Isnt that a good thing though? Why would u want attention from men

[–]Obes99 4 points5 points  (0 children)

So essentially, you’re experiencing what men go through lol.

[–]74389654 0 points1 point  (0 children)

i think you're onto something

[–]Thackham 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Everyone in this comment section should see The Substance (if you can stomach body horror - the message delivery is batshit crazy but it blows this discussion wide open).

[–]RegencyFungus 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Ever since cutting my hair, I’ve felt like I get harassed way less. And I’ve just got a pixie! It’s pretty nice actually, though I do want to grow out my hair and donate it.

[–]diamondcutterdick 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Hey I’m sorry you’re going through that. College can be a tough adjustment. I think that you should stick to what makes you happy rather than change your appearance to fit in, but I’m a guy and I’ve never had to experience what you’re describing.

I have, however, spent like 25 years of my life masking who I am and what I like in order to fit in. It didn’t get me anywhere, didn’t make me happy, and ultimately didn’t provide the life I thought it would. Everybody has to make some compromises to get by, but you should be able to have whatever haircut you want and dress like a backpacker and still be taken seriously.

[–]mrscrapula 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Are you sure they didn't think you were poor? You would have to wear a suit to know for certain whether it's the gender presentation or the look of the hostel clothing that was off putting.

[–]Xargonus 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Goodbye pretty privilege.