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Frustrated in my marriageMarriage Advice (self.AskWomenOver40)

submitted by Only_Pie_2334BORN IN THE 80’s👩🏻‍🎤🎶📟

20 years together, two teenagers. He’s been checked out for a long time. He works so hard at his job but refuses to do anything hard when it comes to the kids and me. He’s a good dad, a good person. But it’s all very surface level. He refuses to do anything hard or have hard conversations. I had to talk to my son about sex and puberty because he refused to do it. I have always had to handle all the disciplining because he refused to do it. I’ve handled all aspects of the household because he has zero tolerance or patience. Finances, doctor appointments, etc. I’ve felt very alone in this marriage for a long long time. Anything difficult I’ve gone through in the last 5-10 years I’ve dealt with on my own. Losing pets, losing relatives, I had a stroke 3 years ago. He was not there for me emotionally during any of it. He’s hard to talk to about any of this because he gets very upset when he feels he’s being criticized. My therapist calls it emotional abuse and I would agree. He gets upset at me and my feelings become the problem rather than him owning up to his behaviors.

A few months ago I finally had enough and told him I was not happy. I told him I feel like we are roommates and I don’t have a real partner. I was very honest about all of our issues. He spiraled. For weeks he spiraled. He flipped between crying and begging to being pissed off at me and hurling accusations at me to threatening to hurt himself. We discussed separation but I backed out due to financial worries. Ultimately we agreed to stay together but that he needed to start therapy for himself to work on all of these issues. We agreed in the spring we would reassess and see if couples counseling would be an option at that point, but agreed he needed to do his own work first. That was over a month ago and he has not started therapy. We barely speak and I feel even more resentment building since it seems he’s doing the absolute least to save this. I found out 2 weeks ago he started a new FB page without me or any of my friends or relatives on it. He has also deleted any pics of me from his IG and removed me as a follower from his IG. I don’t know what to do at this point.

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[–]Useful-Violinist3590GERIATRIC MILLENNIAL 🌈🎶 824 points825 points  (24 children)

What the fuck qualifies for a good father and dad? Because you have described neither. Lol.

And the social media suggests he is cheating or planning to. 

[–]Only_Pie_2334BORN IN THE 80’s👩🏻‍🎤🎶📟[S] 120 points121 points  (22 children)

Ok fair enough, you’re right. On the surface he’s a good dad. I know they have a lot of needs he is not meeting simply due to the fact he doesn’t emotionally connect with them in the way they need. My son is definitely lacking a solid male role model and my daughter shows all the classic signs of a girl lacking a good father role model.

[–]Elegant-Analyst-738145 - 50 📟🌈💽 240 points241 points  (3 children)

Please leave for your children's sake. By staying with your husband, you're teaching them that his behavior is okay and normal. They're going to internalize it and it will affect their relationships in the future.

Good luck. Leaving may seem like a huge, difficult step, but in a few years it will be clear that it was the right one.

[–]Legally_Blonde_258ELDER MILLENNIAL 🌈🎶 103 points104 points  (2 children)

You're also teaching your son that it's ok to be like this, which affects who he becomes in the future. Is this the type of person you want him to be?

[–]RuleHonest978940 - 45 📟🌈💽 59 points60 points  (1 child)

I always think about this. The current crappy spouse was once a son with a crappy male role model.

[–]clairejv40 - 45 📟🌈💽 123 points124 points  (0 children)

He's not even a good dad on the surface. The only thing he's doing is proving money for the family. That's not nothing, but like, he can do that by writing a check for child support.

[–]Emotional-Coat908635 - 40 📱🌈 65 points66 points  (1 child)

The bar for a good dad in women's opinions is so low. If YOU only did what he did for the kids, would people say your a good mom. Probably not. Almost every time a woman says this she is cherry picking a handful of good times and forgetting the day to day uselessness of their partner. He's probably more damaging being around than not. This man sounds like an anchor emotionally and physically.

[–]LuLuLuv44440 - 45 📟🌈💽 3 points4 points  (0 children)

All of this! 👆

[–]Useful-Violinist3590GERIATRIC MILLENNIAL 🌈🎶 40 points41 points  (0 children)

Sometimes we repeat things just so we don’t have to face what’s actually happening.

Divorce is hard. Being a single mom is hard. I’ve been there, and it was still the best decision I ever made. I finally had room for the life I wanted once I let go of someone who had no interest in sharing it with me.

Make sure you have a clear exit plan. This is something you can walk through with your therapist to ensure you’re safe.

If he ever threatens to harm himself again, call the police and report it immediately. They’ll likely place him on an involuntary hold, and having that documented can help establish a pattern of emotional abuse or escalating behavior during the divorce. Anyone willing to kill themselves is willing to be violent to those around them - a motto by police and firefighters. 

[–]GlockenspielGoesDingGERIATRIC MILLENNIAL 🌈🎶 17 points18 points  (0 children)

What happens if you have another stroke from the stress of all of this and end up debilitated? He will have full control over all your medical decisions as your spouse and he’s already shown you through avoidance and frankly being a lame ass loser to your kids, the amount of neglect you can expect in that situation.

What happens if you have another stroke from the stress of all of this and end up dead? You can logically expect that he won’t step up and your kids will be completely dependent on this man who willfully avoids parental responsibility.

As bad as it is now, there are worlds where this is worse if you stay.

[–]billymumfreydownfallGEN X 🕹️📼 16 points17 points  (0 children)

Surface means NOTHING. Girl, if you were my friend I would shake you by the shoulders and tell you to wake the eff up. Are you really going to waste another day of your life with this loser? C'mon.

[–]Apprehensive_Rice19BORN IN THE 80’s👩🏻‍🎤🎶📟 10 points11 points  (6 children)

What is holding you back from filing for divorce?

[–]Only_Pie_2334BORN IN THE 80’s👩🏻‍🎤🎶📟[S] 11 points12 points  (5 children)

Fear. Of the unknown maybe? It’s been 20 years. It’s so hard to imagine a different life on my own. Finances. On the outside he appears to be a really great guy so my friends and family are struggling to see the version of him that I have gotten for so long. So from them I get a lot of “you need to do everything you can to try to work it out” which causes me a lot of self-doubt and questioning myself.

[–]Ok-Challenge4846XENNIAL 📟🎶💽 11 points12 points  (0 children)

I never discussed the problems in my marriage with anyone in my family, but when I told them about the divorce I got a lot of push back from them, that I should think it through, and he is a good person... etc. The truth is no one, no_one can know what you are really going through, and only you can decide on what to do. I had two great decisions in my life, one was to marry (to have a child, I know it's old fashioned but he wanted to) the other one to divorce. Check what help you can get with finances, any social net, charity etc. Think through how a day would look without him, and how can you get through the hurdles. Refuse to feel trapped, there is help out there. One step at a time. Good luck, you can do it!

[–]FactorBig9373GEN X 🕹️📼 1 point2 points  (0 children)

I’m with you. I think of the few times he HAS been useful or I felt protected and I wonder if I am ready and able to step out alone. I hear you.

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    [–]Flux_My_CapacitorGEN X 🕹️📼 9 points10 points  (0 children)

    My guess is that he was always a shitty human and you refused to see it before getting married because love is everything or something like that.

    [–]JoannasBBLELDER MILLENNIAL 🌈🎶 7 points8 points  (0 children)

    Wild that your son is lacking a male role model and your husband lives there in the house with you.

    [–]goldenfingernails55 - 60 🕹️📼 0 points1 point  (0 children)

    Curious, what are the classic signs of a girl lacking a good father role model?

    [–][deleted]  (1 child)

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      [–]Legally_Blonde_258ELDER MILLENNIAL 🌈🎶 21 points22 points  (0 children)

      This!!! Every time I read someone describe their partner as a good father or good husband but they don't even meet the bare minimum for decent. The bar is truly in hell.

      [–]VandermilfMILLENNIAL 🧑‍🎤💽 285 points286 points  (13 children)

      He’s planning his exit. Do the same.

      [–]Mmmhmmjk40 - 45 📟🌈💽 79 points80 points  (11 children)

      I completely agree. This same thing happened to my friend. The husband was surprised she wasn’t happy and begged her to stay. When she kept moving forward, he hired a cutthroat lawyer and made sure my friend got nothing - and he was the bread winner - she was primarily a stay at home mom.

      [–]Apprehensive_Bake_7835 - 40 📱🌈 44 points45 points  (6 children)

      We need to follow Katie Holmes lead when we want out of a marriage. I'm so sorry that happened to your friend.

      [–]Mmmhmmjk40 - 45 📟🌈💽 20 points21 points  (0 children)

      Thank you for the comment. It was a pretty horrible marriage (her words, not mine) and it was wild to see the lengths he went to so she had to suffer. Why? Ego?

      I always crack up when one spouse is surprised the other is miserable. I get happiness might look different to everyone but a lot of people are in denial.

      [–]RuleHonest978940 - 45 📟🌈💽 18 points19 points  (4 children)

      Katie needs to write a book at some point with a full step-by-step playbook.

      [–]dirtymartini83BORN IN THE 80’s👩🏻‍🎤🎶📟 12 points13 points  (3 children)

      Seriously. She should offer seminars! I wonder how she did it though, because I feel like Tom had her under constant surveillance. She’s such a badass!

      [–]Inevitable-Tower-13440 - 45 📟🌈💽 24 points25 points  (0 children)

      I briefly spoke with someone from her hometown years ago. Katie’s father is/was an attorney and apparently had a helping hand in getting it done in secret. If so - father of the year there!!!

      [–]RuleHonest978940 - 45 📟🌈💽 3 points4 points  (1 child)

      Exactly! And her daughter seems to be a well adjusted kid. What better reward than that.

      [–]dirtymartini83BORN IN THE 80’s👩🏻‍🎤🎶📟 1 point2 points  (0 children)

      Truly.

      [–]1Bright_Apricot40 - 45 📟🌈💽 7 points8 points  (1 child)

      This is so scary, I can’t believe anyone would do this to the parent of their children. I hope your friend is doing ok.

      [–]Mmmhmmjk40 - 45 📟🌈💽 7 points8 points  (0 children)

      It’s been a while and she’s moved on. But…the kids remember.

      [–][deleted]  (1 child)

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        [–]LuLuLuv44440 - 45 📟🌈💽 5 points6 points  (0 children)

        This! Literally said he was emotionally preparing himself for separation but wants to be the one that holds the cards in doing it.

        [–]VFTMBORN IN THE 80’s👩🏻‍🎤🎶📟 147 points148 points  (0 children)

        It is over. Focus on yourself, stop expecting anything from him. See a lawyer ASAP.

        [–]dont_be_all_uncool__35 - 40 📱🌈 124 points125 points  (1 child)

        It will be much easier for you when you only have to parent two children instead of 3.

        [–]OldnBorin40 - 45 📟🌈💽 50 points51 points  (0 children)

        OP checks in with us in 2 years - ‘I’m free and this is AWESOME’

        [–]sandyduncansglasseyeBORN IN THE 70’s 🪩🕺📻 87 points88 points  (0 children)

        Yeah he is neither a good dad or person. Just end it already. Seems like he’s already acting like he’s single.

        [–]Infinite_MatryoshkaMILLENNIAL 🧑‍🎤💽 81 points82 points  (0 children)

        Therapy won't fix him. He doesn't want to be fixed. You need to do what's best for you and your kids. Staying with him doesn't sound like the right answer, even if you'll start out with some financial struggles.

        If he's hiding a secret FB account and scrubbing you from Instagram, he's up to no good.

        [–]unlovelyladybartlebyOLD XENNIAL 🌈🎶 71 points72 points  (0 children)

        The second someone threatens to hurt themselves to control you, it's over. Walk away while there's still a hope that you can politely chat at your kid's weddings

        [–]Liverne_and_ShirleyGEN X 🕹️📼 42 points43 points  (0 children)

        He’s not a good dad or a good person. He’s abusive in so many ways. Stop subjecting your kids to this kind of behavior.

        Talk to a domestic violence organization so they can help you make a plan to leave safely and help you find financial resources. They will have advice about how to deal with the emotional manipulation too. Also talk to a divorce attorney, get some advice about what your financial situation might look like if you do get divorced. Make a plan and follow through. Don’t tell him you’re doing any of this.

        [–]JnCsmomBORN IN THE 80’s👩🏻‍🎤🎶📟 44 points45 points  (0 children)

        Seems like he is preparing his exit.  I am very sorry for your situation. 

        [–]greatdruthersofpill40 - 45 📟🌈💽 30 points31 points  (0 children)

        I’m sorry. As others have said, he’s moving on. It’s time for you to do the same. Be strong, mama. You can do this. You’ve done it for 20 years already. ❤️

        [–]Weary-BabysGEN X 🕹️📼 25 points26 points  (0 children)

        Get your ducks in a row. STAT.

        [–]CheddarbaybiskitsGEN X 🕹️📼 29 points30 points  (0 children)

        If financial worries are keeping you from separating, start making a plan now to support yourself financially. Also, talk to a lawyer about your options.

        This relationship can’t be saved.

        [–]MotherDepartment111145 - 50 📟🌈💽 30 points31 points  (0 children)

        Take it from me, lawyer up and leave. He won’t change.

        [–]mariruizgarMILLENNIAL 🧑‍🎤💽 21 points22 points  (0 children)

        Have you taken any steps towards leaving him? Talked to an attorney? Gotten a job? You’re not happy, he knows it and he just doesn’t care. You already had a stroke, I’m sorry. Don’t wait for the next one. You deserve more than this, which is maybe financial support and nothing else?

        [–]Organic-Activity-25540 - 45 📟🌈💽 19 points20 points  (2 children)

        Strongly recommend divorce. I did 100% of the child raising, cleaning, yard work, errands, etc for 10 of the 15 years I was married and when I finally divorced I still did all those things but I didn’t have a useless male body on my couch taking up space. HIGHLY recommend ending it. And don’t believe his sob stories if you tell him you want a divorce. Stick to your guns. He 100% will go hard on “working on it” and “fixing things” but it’s only because he doesn’t want his life to change in any way and bc being single is more difficult than having a live in maid who raises your children for you while you do jack squat.

        [–]Only_Pie_2334BORN IN THE 80’s👩🏻‍🎤🎶📟[S] 9 points10 points  (1 child)

        He spent a good 2-3 weeks begging to fix things and to work on it. He pegged every issue and went on and on about what he’ll do moving forward to improve things. Well, here we are and he’s done zero. If anything I’m trying to keep the boat above water while he’s letting water in.

        [–]Dismal_General_5126OLD XENNIAL 🌈🎶 9 points10 points  (0 children)

        You need to stop that immediately. The boat is sinking so grab yourself and your kids a life preserver...to hell with him, he made the holes in the first place.

        He has made his true intentions very clear with the social media shadiness. Collect the household financial info and go see a lawyer stat, like by this Friday at the latest.

        [–]husheveryoneXENNIAL 📟🎶💽 20 points21 points  (1 child)

        2 weeks ago he started a new FB page without me or any of my friends or relatives on it. He has also deleted any pics of me from his IG and removed me as a follower

        Please quietly see a live local divorce lawyer. Avoid any confrontations. Be aware he may be recording his conversations with you for future litigation purposes. Make sure you have access to as much cash as you can to support yourself and the kids should he walk out on you one day soon. Please also read Chump Lady. I’m so sorry you’re a married single mom. Hang in there.

        [–]Curious_Substance236BORN IN THE 80’s👩🏻‍🎤🎶📟 9 points10 points  (0 children)

        If there isn't already, there should be a sub called married single mom.

        [–]Busy_Anything_18940 - 45 📟🌈💽 12 points13 points  (1 child)

        Why do y’all stay with these lame ass, do nothing men??

        [–]tharpakandroGEN X 🕹️📼 5 points6 points  (0 children)

        We pray that they will see our value! If they don’t maybe our worthiness is null? We’ve literally done nothing to signal that they need to win us. We are so grateful to receive their attention that we just roll over, it seems. Then we have a wedding, a house, and kids. We work ourselves to the bone hoping they get it. Then when they don’t we start thinking that we must do more. One day, we wake up and realize we are overburdened and unhappy. Meanwhile they’re resentful that they’ve had to work at all. They are angry and they not only hate us, they blame us.

        [–]Rezolution20BORN IN THE 60’s ☮️ ❤️ 10 points11 points  (1 child)

        What about this man makes him a good dad? From what you're saying, I see no proof of it.

        I think it's time you admit defeat and get out any way you can, hook or crook.

        He's mentally unstable, and since you're married, if he threatens self harm, then you have the ability to call the police and have him put on a psych hold if necessary.

        You need to get out now, because he's either cheating or manipulating you by making new sm accounts to make you think he is, and deleting your follows from existing ones.

        [–]scrappapermusingsMILLENNIAL 🧑‍🎤💽 10 points11 points  (0 children)

        My guess is he's probably "nice".

        [–]llamaavocado35 - 40 📱🌈 6 points7 points  (0 children)

        This is such an example of how toxic masculinity is so pervasive and also invisible. The picture of being a good dad for him was likely just “work hard, provide for your family” without any consideration for anyone’s (including his own) emotional needs. He likely believes he did everything right.

        I’m so sorry that you are the one to have to deal with his issues. I hope whatever happens you find peace.

        [–]goodie1663BORN IN THE 60’s ☮️ ❤️ 8 points9 points  (0 children)

        He doesn't want to change, period. He's hoping you'll cave and that life will go back to what it was. Just in case, he's preparing emotionally on social media.

        My ex was over-the-top, but he also agreed to work on things when we separated for the last and final time. He agreed to therapy and a bunch of other things that I hoped would set some boundaries around things. I quickly knew that he didn't mean any of it.

        Yes, we divorced.

        [–]kermit-t-frogsterGEN X 🕹️📼 6 points7 points  (0 children)

        I think just file for divorce. He's clearly not willing to do the work to fix this marriage. By the way, what you describe is not "a good person" or a "good dad."

        [–]11Elemental11GEN X 🕹️📼 7 points8 points  (0 children)

        Lady you know exactly why a person blanks out their partner on SM. So not only was he an absent father and useless partner but he is now stepping into the cheating area…no financial security makes up for contentment - freedom and peace in your heart. Stay strong- big hug to you

        [–]Pinklady777XENNIAL 📟🎶💽 5 points6 points  (1 child)

        Hey, just want to say with everything you've been through and faced on your own essentially that you are strong and you would be fine on your own. I'm so sorry you had to go through a stroke without support.

        I've been through some rough medical issues without the emotional support of my husband. And I know how much it hurts to need that support and have him right there but not get it. You deserve better! Sending a hug.

        [–]Only_Pie_2334BORN IN THE 80’s👩🏻‍🎤🎶📟[S] 7 points8 points  (0 children)

        I appreciate that, thank you. I had so many doctors appointments and I had to beg him just to get him to come to one appointment with me. One. And it felt like I was forcing him to be there so much that by the end of it I wished he hadn’t even gone.

        [–]IntrovertGal110240 - 45 📟🌈💽 6 points7 points  (0 children)

        I mean....is there really a reason to stay at this point?? And staying for the kids is not an answer. If anything, I'm sure your kids are very aware of the tension and dynamic between you and your husband. If it's more miserable staying with him, then figure out in the time he's choosing to waste by not going to therapy and starting social media profiles undercover to figure out your exit plan. If he can't act mature enough to figure out his own problems and the things he contributes to those problems...then there's nothing left to figure out! It's ran it's course and it's time to go!

        [–]Impressive-Car4131XENNIAL 📟🎶💽 5 points6 points  (0 children)

        My ex was diagnosed with autism and pathological demand avoidance for a while. I say a while because later that was overturned by a court appointed psychologist who said he has NPD. All I know is I’m much better off out of it but it’s been a hell of a journey, he loudly claims victim hood, has weaponized incompetence and lies extensively- to the extent of fabricating documents for court. I had no idea what he was capable of or I’d have been out a lot sooner. I thought he was a manchild but he is wickedly effective when he chooses to be.

        [–]EgonOnTheJob40 - 45 📟🌈💽 5 points6 points  (0 children)

        Leave. Will it be hard? Yes. Will there be a lot of gruelling work? Yes. Will you need to revise and revisit your financial needs and make big changes to your life? Almost certainly.

        But mate! He’s doing sweet fuck all as a husband, father, partner or friend. Why stay?

        Can you imagine what things will be like in 5 years? 10? You had a stroke and he gave you very little emotional support. What happens next time you get a serious illness or injury? One that may need actual care, eg making meals, making medical appointments, feeding you, bathing you, or anything of that nature?

        He has been digging himself a grave for a long time. Don’t lie down in it with him.

        [–]Miserable-Net-1482OLD XENNIAL 🌈🎶 3 points4 points  (0 children)

        Your initial point of him being a good father and husband are overshadowed by how much he isn't. You aren't compatible. If you ever were, it's gone. He has proven he has no interest in changing or helping. I think you know your answer....

        [–]EnvironmentalLuck515GEN X 🕹️📼 5 points6 points  (0 children)

        You do know what to do. You just hate to have to do it, which is understandable. He doesn't get endless chances while you suffer through his idiocy. You should be your own first priority at this point.

        [–]somethingquirky01XENNIAL 📟🎶💽 4 points5 points  (0 children)

        He has relied on you to do all the emotional and physical labour for years. Now you've asked him to put in an effort, he's realised the gravy train that kept his life functional is coming to an end. It's too much, he cannot operate without you.

        You will end up divorcing him because you and your children deserve to live with a whole man, and he'll be one of those dirty old men buying frozen meals for one in a supermarket, whining to strangers about his b*tch ex-wife who left him for no reason.

        Focus on getting your finances sorted out and then be free of this millstone.

        [–]CatHairAndChaosBORN IN THE 80’s👩🏻‍🎤🎶📟 4 points5 points  (0 children)

        Sigh... in posts like this, there's a "he's a great person/partner/parent" in the beginning immediately followed by description of how that is actually not at all true. Every single time. It's so sad. Like did you read what you wrote back to yourself? He sucks.

        He's been a shitty husband and parent for 5-10 years. You know he's abusive. He's making zero efforts to do any of the work he said he'd do. He's setting up private social media. You barely speak. What do you mean you don't know what to do? You leave. For not just your sake, but the sake of your kids. I know leaving isn't easy, but staying with him is doing absolutely nothing good.

        Your kids have a shitty dad, which is more damaging than no dad at all. They're also learning about relationships from you and your husband. You are modeling an abysmal relationship for them. As it is, your kids surely need some therapy. The longer you stay, the more psychological damage they'll have to address. Show them that you shouldn't tolerate men like him by leaving, before he inevitably leaves you for some other poor gal.

        Talk to a lawyer and a domestic violence organization. Document all the abuse and crap that your husband pulls. Let him spiral. If he threatens to hurt himself, tell him "That's your choice" and call authorities or his family or whatever and tell them he's a danger to himself.

        [–]Due_Description_7298BORN IN THE 80’s👩🏻‍🎤🎶📟 5 points6 points  (0 children)

        He's not a good Dad. He's not present as a parent and he's setting a terrible relationship model that your sons will normalise, internalise and possibly replicate.

        A lot of people don't want to "do the work" on themselves because doing so requires facing their failures, flaws and ways they they've fucked up. Doing that is actually so hard that many people just check out of the relationship instead, which is what your husband appears to be doing. He simply can't handle the fact that he needs to change to keep his wife. 

        Acknowledge this challenge and show him understanding and empathy, but set a deadline for both individual therapy and couples therapy. If he doesn't do it, the unfortunately your only options are divorce or accept the status quo. Some people just aren't able to make changes 

        [–]Front-Brilliant-4898XENNIAL 📟🎶💽 3 points4 points  (0 children)

        My question is why are you staying? This relationship only seems to drain you. You can do way better on your own.

        [–]Mundane_Phone_1558GEN X 🕹️📼 4 points5 points  (0 children)

        This is narcissistic abuse behavior.

        Im married to one- i could have written this.

        Except my husband doesnt work hard, at anything not even work.. still manages to good paycheck bc its a family business.

        Does exactly what he wants at all times. Shuts me down when try to talk about anything at all important.

        Abuses drugs and alcohol. After latest bender/incident I told him the only way I would stay is if he got some sort of individual therapy (we are in cc) and as of yet he hasn't.

        Check out the narcissistic spouses sub here for advice

        [–]thisistestingmeGEN X 🕹️📼[🍰] 2 points3 points  (0 children)

        You are showing your children this is an acceptable version of a married relationship. They - and you - deserve better. He’s not changing, and I feel like you know this.

        [–]scrappapermusingsMILLENNIAL 🧑‍🎤💽 2 points3 points  (0 children)

        Just because he knows how to be genial doesn't mean he's a good dad or husband. He's physically present and he's polite, but you're doing life on your own. It's time to put him out of the house. I bet he only protested this hard because he was afraid of being unhoused.

        [–]ennuiandapathyGEN X 🕹️📼 2 points3 points  (0 children)

        If he’s not showing up for your kids emotionally, if he’s not there to discipline them, or to have hard/difficult/uncomfortable conversations, if he’s not present for doctors appointments or to parent them in any other way, wtf makes him a good dad?

        How the hell was he a “good person” if he’s not present in your marriage? He’s let you handle Finances and doctors appointments, parenting your children and dealing with the loss of pets and family members by yourself. He couldn’t even be there for you when you had a stroke. He’s emotionally immature and lacks accountability for his own feelings and actions. Your therapist has described him as emotionally abusive. How low is the damn bar for this man?

        Stop trying to make this relationship work. Stop trying to get him to change. His actions are telling you exactly where his intentions are despite what his mouth is saying. Your next step should be contacting a divorce lawyer.

        [–]Bright-Ad5739XENNIAL 📟🎶💽 2 points3 points  (0 children)

        Sounds like he wants to be in control of the break up and find someone else before he ditches you

        [–]ShadowDancer1975GEN Z 💻📱 2 points3 points  (0 children)

        Time to pack it in, and start making yourself happy. He's obviously not going to help. Seems like he thinks it's easier to quit than to actually apply effort. In that case, you need to stop wasting your time.

        Anyone who makes you do EVERYTHING, deserves NOTHING from you. You are not a servant or a wet nurse. You deserve a partner, not someone you need to serve and coddle. Stop giving him a pass because he's nice to OTHER people. And in order to be a good father, you have to actually participate.

        You are looking at the situation from your point of view after having been in this situation for 20 years. Step outside and imagine this is your friend. What would you tell her? It's okay to be honest with yourself.

        [–]somethingwholesomer40 - 45 📟🌈💽 1 point2 points  (0 children)

        Serve him divorce papers. Yes, finances. But we get one life and it ain’t to stay in a shit relationship

        [–]Any_West_926GEN X 🕹️📼 1 point2 points  (0 children)

        Talk to a divorce lawyer. Sounds like he has.

        [–]malachite_animusXENNIAL 📟🎶💽 1 point2 points  (0 children)

        Leave and don't waste any more years of your life. There doesn't sound like there is anything to salvage in the relationship.

        [–]Silver_Haired_KittyGERIATRIC MILLENNIAL 🌈🎶 1 point2 points  (0 children)

        He sounds horrible. My ex neglected me when I had a broken leg and that opened my eyes. I couldn’t imagine being neglected while having cancer or a stroke. As soon as I was able financially I left him.

        [–]RoseScentedGlassesBORN IN THE 80’s👩🏻‍🎤🎶📟 1 point2 points  (0 children)

        For what it's worth, divorcing him may actually give your kids the dad they deserve. Maybe it's the thing he needs to see to finally get some things together and be present. Or maybe not. But there is at least potential for change with a divorce, and no potential in the current situation, so I'd go for the divorce.

        [–]SeaMathematician5150BORN IN THE 80’s👩🏻‍🎤🎶📟 1 point2 points  (0 children)

        Cut the strings. He has not taken the necessary steps to work on the marriage. Organize your finances. Get a divorce attorney and file for divorce.

        What are you fighting for? His social media is very sus. He is already looking for your replacement. Married men often leave when the new missus is in place.

        Good luck.

        [–]RuleHonest978940 - 45 📟🌈💽 1 point2 points  (1 child)

        OP, your issue is financial. If you were financially independent you would leave immediately. So solve for that instead of trying to defend the indefensible.

        [–]Curious_Substance236BORN IN THE 80’s👩🏻‍🎤🎶📟 2 points3 points  (0 children)

        This exactly.

        [–]KeyDig7747GERIATRIC MILLENNIAL 🌈🎶 1 point2 points  (0 children)

        Your happiness cascades to your children. Separation is hard but you will figure it out. Everyone does. Go make yourself whole; alone or with someone else, show those kids they deserve more.

        [–]kittyshakedownBORN IN THE 70’s 🪩🕺📻 1 point2 points  (0 children)

        Your kids are old enough now. They don’t need your constant protection and buffering. You can set expectations with them directly and not have to go through their father like you would if they were younger.

        So maybe it’s time. Time to reevaluate. Time to make some hard decisions.

        It won’t make everything better. And it may not be the right choice but you do have options.

        But what happened to make it different than it was, say 10 years ago? Or when you were married Pre-kids?

        I’d be cautious of a diagnosis like “emotional abuse” from a therapist that has only heard one narrative. You are not a passive victim.

        I would suggest you be patient and get things in order first. Things will be harder and you should be rightfully prepared for whatever decision you make.

        Seasons change, people change…there isn’t a one size fits all answer.

        [–]Fun_universe35 - 40 📱🌈 1 point2 points  (0 children)

        Please leave this man. You would be way better off single than having to deal with such a selfish person. Damn.

        [–]Intelligent_Pass254040 - 45 📟🌈💽 1 point2 points  (0 children)

        Being a good partner first makes you a good dad. Your spouse is chosen family they didn't make you or come from you they are CHOSEN. He seems to habe stopped choosing you. Starting a new face book page takes just as much time to Google therapists your insurance covers.

        He has made his choice. You should consult with lawyers now so you aren't blindsided financially or housing wise.

        [–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

        Oh so you have three teenagers at home? Fun

        [–]queenapsalarBORN IN THE 80’s👩🏻‍🎤🎶📟 1 point2 points  (0 children)

        He is using the time you've given him to create a soft landing for himself. Do not wait, unless YOU need to. Otherwise start the legal process now. The more time you give him, the more ways he will try and fuck you over during the (I'm sorry, but it's pretty clear) inevitable divorce.

        [–]vomputer45 - 50 📟🌈💽 1 point2 points  (0 children)

        Erm you do actually know what to do. You guys made a deal for continuing the marriage and he hasn’t kept up his end of it.

        It’s over, and that is a good thing. Now you can move forward with clarity.

        Don’t use any excuses to avoid the split. The kids, the finances, it can all be worked out. It’s way better than demonstrating this terrible relationship for your kids any further.

        [–]SweetandbubblyBORN IN THE 60’s ☮️ ❤️ 1 point2 points  (0 children)

        So he doesn’t physically abuse the kids or you but that’s a very low bar for being a good father and husband. I was married to him for 31 years and stayed for my kids. I continually asked for what I needed and he NEVER met my needs. Honestly he barely tried and instead told me I was so high maintenance. I asked for the bare minimum. It did SO MUCH emotional damage it took me years to recover. He is selfish, avoidant, and spoiled rotten. His crying and carrying on is manipulation. Give him a drop dead date to start therapy or he has to move out. Plan your future. My guess is there is a slim chance he will ever put you and the kids before himself. I’m very sorry you are going through this. But this is very very common. They want a wife and kids but want a mother and the kids are just there. Don’t think for a minute, your kids don’t see this.

        [–]Flux_My_CapacitorGEN X 🕹️📼 1 point2 points  (0 children)

        Good dads don’t refuse to do anything when it comes to their kids.

        You’re in big time denial here.

        [–]crystal-crawlerBORN IN THE 80’s👩🏻‍🎤🎶📟 1 point2 points  (0 children)

        He’s def on the dating apps. And he’s manipulated you into staying so you still continue to be his maid. If this was really important to him he would have corrected in the last decade or he would have this last round. 

        You need to make your exit plan. You need to talk to a lawyer and other women who have divorced immature partners. 

        [–]e_honey_sBORN IN THE 70’s 🪩🕺📻 1 point2 points  (0 children)

        Please leave. I waited too long. My kids are grown and they begged me to leave earlier. Your husband is not a good father, you said his son is lacking a good male role model and daughter is showing classic signs of is song a father figure. And he has left you to be alone and lonely. I’m 54 and I wish I had left decades ago. Please leave.

        [–]Melodic_Principle055 - 60 🕹️📼 1 point2 points  (0 children)

        You are a married single parent with a 200 lb man-child. He's showing you who he is - believe him.

        [–]National_Elk8445GEN X 🕹️📼 1 point2 points  (0 children)

        "He's a good dad. A good person."

        Proceeds to list all the ways he's neither of these things. Dude is checked out and either cheating or hoping to.

        [–]Klutzy_Yam_34350 - 55 🕹️📼 1 point2 points  (0 children)

        He is either already cheating or planning to try. Men are simple and the issues with Facebook and IG are exactly this.

        He doesn’t care. He’s been told what’s going to happen and what he needs to do to salvage the marriage and he’s doing the opposite. Just like he does with everything else he’s leaving this up to you to figure out.

        See a divorce attorney tomorrow. Leave while you still have time to enjoy some of your younger years.

        [–]NJ2CAthrowaway50 - 55 🕹️📼 1 point2 points  (0 children)

        DIVORCE HIM.

        [–]MetaverseLizXENNIAL 📟🎶💽 1 point2 points  (0 children)

        You need to start planning now. Get a storage locker and start putting items you think he might take. Start documenting all communication. Get at least a lawyer consult.

        Do not give in to any of his whining or demands. Let the lawyers take control of that.

        You kids also need to start therapy because they aren't blind, and will need help navigating the new normal.

        [–]interestedpartyMGEN X 🕹️📼 1 point2 points  (0 children)

        This guy sucks. I feel like maybe you grew up without a good male role model should be so you think he’s a good dad. Good dads are also good husbands. They help with everything. They take some of the burden off of you. My husband always takes out the garbage it’s his job he’s a man. It’s not my job it’s his job. If someone has to go in the attic it’s his job. I have jobs that are just mine. I always did more parenting because I’m just better at it and I relate to the kids better. Does that mean he didn’t help? Heck no. He helped plenty I just would take the lead because things made a lot more sense to me. We share other duties we wash our own laundry. We clean up after ourselves. I make moore meals cause I like to cook. But then he does the dishes. We share. We discuss. We fight. We compromise. We help the other one when they needed it. We give support. We do it all as a team.

        He sounds like one of those old school husbands and they don’t exist anymore. Women are no longer tolerating this. It’s unfair. We’re supposed to be superwoman make tons of money and do everything else. And they just show up and have a job with limited hours. How is that fair? Why would any woman want that life? Is this the life that you want?

        [–]interestedpartyMGEN X 🕹️📼 1 point2 points  (0 children)

        This guy sucks. I feel like maybe you grew up without a good male role model so you think he’s a good dad. Good dads are also good husbands. They help with everything. They take some of the burden off of you.

        My husband always takes out the garbage it’s his job. Just like getting stuff from the attic. I have jobs that are just mine. I always take the lead parenting because it makes a lot more sense to me. We share other duties we wash our own laundry. We clean up after ourselves. I make more meals because I like to cook. But then he does the dishes. We share. We discuss. We fight. We compromise. We help the other. We give support. We do it all as a team.

        He sounds like one of those old school husbands and they don’t exist anymore. Women are no longer tolerating this. It’s unfair. We’re supposed to be superwoman make tons of money and do everything else? And they just show up and have a job with limited hours. How is that fair? Why would any woman want that life? Is this the life that you want?

        [–]Inevitable-Tower-13440 - 45 📟🌈💽 1 point2 points  (0 children)

        He’s a lazy dad. Lazy husband. Won’t change. Please don’t waste any more time. If your friends say this is normal for marriages… I don’t think they are necessarily wrong. But, the ones who WANT better, KNOW it’s not “normal”. Happiness can be found. There are good men out there who are wonderful husbands and wonderful dads. I found one 7 years ago. And honestly, if I were you, I’d be happier ALONE than with your him. Also, he’s a terrible role model for your children. Good luck!!!

        [–]I_pinchyou40 - 45 📟🌈💽 1 point2 points  (1 child)

        You have grown and he hasn't. If he wants to grow and meet you where you are its gonna take years of therapy, time and setbacks will happen. That's IF he wants to If he's not willing you are kicking a dead horse

        [–]Only_Pie_2334BORN IN THE 80’s👩🏻‍🎤🎶📟[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

        I actually said these words to a friend the other day. I feel like I’ve grown and evolved as a person so much and he’s exactly the same.

        [–]Queen_ScofflawGEN X 🕹️📼 1 point2 points  (0 children)

        Ok.
        But no. Can we stop doing this please.

        "He’s a good dad"
        He absolutely is not.

        You should prepare for divorce. He's not going to change, he is going to blame you.

        [–]yerrrrr1040 - 45 📟🌈💽 1 point2 points  (0 children)

        You've done it for 20 years. Can you do it for 20 more? The answer to that question will guide your plan for your future. Hugs to you. 🫂

        [–]Substantial-Spare501GEN X 🕹️📼 1 point2 points  (0 children)

        He’s not going to change; abusers feel entitled to act the way they do. Read this: https://archive.org/download/LundyWhyDoesHeDoThat/Lundy_Why-does-he-do-that.pdf

        And yes it’s going to suck financially. I left my ex wha was like this and also an alcoholic and it was so expensive and worth every fucking penny.

        [–]RengeflowerGEN X 🕹️📼 1 point2 points  (0 children)

        He’s acting unstable and shady. Get a divorce lawyer, NOW. He is making plans without you.

        [–]tharpakandroGEN X 🕹️📼 1 point2 points  (0 children)

        I feel like you gave him a chance to get to work on himself and possibly save the marriage. I think you’d leave now if it weren’t for the finances you mentioned. Go open an independent account and start saving money for your exit. He sounds like he can get pretty dramatic and distort shit. You may record an outburst so you can come back and listen when you’re getting cold feet. I video’ed my husband grab me and try to throw me down the stairs, I needed that to get me through the part of me that was wired to feel bad for him. It’s been over 10 years and he still guilt trips me.

        [–]Curious_Substance236BORN IN THE 80’s👩🏻‍🎤🎶📟 1 point2 points  (0 children)

        Imagine yourself a year or two from now. You've met a supportive partner, the kids have a calm peaceful primary home, you feel better about yourself than you ever believed possible and sometimes wonder...who is this beautiful happy woman in the mirror? Step One towards that goal: start squirreling away money so you can leave with the kids ASAP. He is already doing that.

        [–]LuLuLuv44440 - 45 📟🌈💽 1 point2 points  (0 children)

        It feels like he's emotionally preparing himself a separation from you for whatever reason, but wanted to be the one to pull the trigger. It's very bizarre behavior.

        [–]Feisty-Newt-5024GERIATRIC MILLENNIAL 🌈🎶 1 point2 points  (0 children)

        It sounds to me like he knows the relationship is over and is trying to move on, so when you leave him he has someone new to take care of him. What a man child. Please, please leave. I am so angry on your behalf.

        [–]fusukeguinomiGEN X 🕹️📼 1 point2 points  (2 children)

        You are so young to have a stroke. I hope you are fully recovered.

        I had a health scare that was very serious (borderline life threatening) and my SO didn’t register. I felt so alone and forgotten at the hospital. It did make me question things.

        [–]Only_Pie_2334BORN IN THE 80’s👩🏻‍🎤🎶📟[S] 2 points3 points  (1 child)

        Yes, I was 42 at the time. It was caused by a vertebral artery dissection. I’m so sorry you went through something similar. It’s a horrible feeling.

        [–]fusukeguinomiGEN X 🕹️📼 1 point2 points  (0 children)

        That’s so scary! I can relate to other parts of your post too.

        The upside was feeling very empowered by having gone through a week in the hospital, weak and in pain, all by myself.

        I hope you find clarity and strength to forge your own path.

        [–]MrsPegBORN IN THE 70’s 🪩🕺📻 1 point2 points  (0 children)

        He knows it's over, he has no intention of doing therapy, he's trying to meet another woman before you boot him.

        [–]LetsBNiceYallGEN X 🕹️📼 1 point2 points  (0 children)

        Get an attorney now. Get a restraining order that will restrict him & you from emptying bank accounts.

        [–]JoannasBBLELDER MILLENNIAL 🌈🎶 1 point2 points  (0 children)

        You are just a domestic servant to him. THIS is why women are getting divorced in droves. Your husband is a selfish toddler.

        Classic example of what that girl is talking about in that song Labour.

        [–]Infinite_Pudding505840 - 45 📟🌈💽 1 point2 points  (0 children)

        This: “He works so hard at his job but refuses to do anything hard when it comes to the kids and me.”

        Does not belong with this: “He’s a good dad, a good person.”

        [–]escherwallaceGERIATRIC MILLENNIAL 🌈🎶 1 point2 points  (0 children)

        Call a lawyer. It will get worse before it gets better, but it will get better.

        [–]ayfkm123XENNIAL 📟🎶💽 1 point2 points  (0 children)

        I do t think he sounds like a good dad or person. He sounds like a child, leaving the entire burden on you

        [–]Firm_Distribution99940 - 45 📟🌈💽 1 point2 points  (0 children)

        Push him on his commitment to start therapy. He’s avoidant and avoidants need their feet held to the fire (I am a recovering avoidant myself). 

        [–]ourbestlivesareaheadGEN X 🕹️📼 1 point2 points  (0 children)

        I can’t tell you what to do. My personal opinion and choice, though? There are many ways to break martial vows. He’s broken his. He might rehabilitate himself, he might not. Likely not. If you’re stuck financially, man, I’d start practicing some serious detachment and just build up my own life, my fitness, appearance, my money, my friends. And I’d get a boyfriend on the side. And when my money was up enough, I’d file for divorce.

        [–]MommersHeart50 - 55 🕹️📼 1 point2 points  (0 children)

        My mother always told me, “it is better to be alone than to wish you were.”

        Plan to enjoy this next phase of your life.

        [–]Short-Protection8670BORN IN THE 80’s👩🏻‍🎤🎶📟 1 point2 points  (0 children)

        its easier without having him there as another child or chore….id figure the finances out and leave. you’re wasting time when you could be happier alone with less stress and eventually find someone who cares about you and wants to do the hard stuff WITH you.

        [–]Soup4MyFamilia45 - 50 📟🌈💽 1 point2 points  (0 children)

        LEAVE HIM. JFC... why in the freaking world do we have to keep reading these horrific stories of women being abused and questioning whether to leave?!?

        [–]MsAndrie40 - 45 📟🌈💽 1 point2 points  (0 children)

        Talk to a lawyer ASAP and learn your options. He sounds like he is already trying to monkey branch; wouldn't be surprised if he already is on dating apps.

        I don’t know what to do at this point.

        Your other option is to continue staying and putting up with it. That's not a guarantee that he won't leave you first, if he is successful in his monkey branch attempt. It is hard coming to terms with it, but you can't force him to being a good husband and father.

        [–]FactorBig9373GEN X 🕹️📼 1 point2 points  (0 children)

        I’m in the same boat. The same.

        [–]scaffeBORN IN THE 70’s 🪩🕺📻 1 point2 points  (0 children)

        He’s a good dad, a good person.

        The bar is underneath hell for men, apparently. If I did what you husband did I would be a selfish, uncaring bitch. But I'm a woman, so I guess that standards are different.

        If you can't afford to leave him, then you've got to figure out how to make it work without expecting him to change anything about himself.

        [–]Excellent_Fail990875 - 80 ⚾️📻☎️ 1 point2 points  (2 children)

        Hi sister. Big hug. Let’s sit with the anger for a second. Maybe another second as it’s been twenty years.

        Okay now let’s get to business. You said he’s all work and nothing else. That’s great! Pull up his retirement and investments as well as any stocks. Get the information that isn’t just your bank accounts. Start gathering and making copies of or just gathering all this paperwork. You will not want to be doing this part later.

        Next talk to your kids. Let them know changes are amongst you.

        He’s already quite quit your marriage. He is no longer a focus on what YOU need. You will continue raising them kids, only now minus any mention of him. No more Dad will talk to you when he gets home. Just, he simply isn’t a part of the conversation.

        Get yourself good and ready. Because he is no longer the concern. You. You are the only concern from here on out. You need to place your oxygen on yourself first.

        Big hugs sis. It’s horrible to think about how many of the 20+ yr marriages are together because one or both partners doesn’t know how Move Forward without the other. But it’s WONDERFUL to see all of us who figured it out, finished raising our kids, and are happily living our lives after being married for 23 years!!!!!

        You’ve got this! It definitely takes a village but some of us only have the strength from our spines and that’s enough, believe me.

        Lean on us! We got you!!!

        [–]Only_Pie_2334BORN IN THE 80’s👩🏻‍🎤🎶📟[S] 1 point2 points  (1 child)

        Thank you for these words. 23 years, wow. Support like you and so many here just means the world to me right now, you have no idea.

        [–]Excellent_Fail990875 - 80 ⚾️📻☎️ 1 point2 points  (0 children)

        I understand the amount of fear and concern and frustration and pain. And the absolute numbness. To it all.

        But now it’s time to gather strength, breathe, paperwork and all the possibilities of what a tomorrow of your choosing, could be.

        That was the hardest part for me as I knew my entire life I was a damn good wife. And a damn good mother. A friend for all and any. But what I didn’t realize was the kids would either leave, knowing This was what marriage is? Or tear their lives apart now and figure it out as I go? Well, I had boys who would soon be men and the thought of them being the kind of man he was, was terrifying.

        I knew all of these things existed. I knew exactly which folders documents were in. I had an exit plan. I could do this. What I didn’t plan on was that day. The day that changed it all. I walked away with my kids and as much as we could gather in short notice, and fit us all in the car and drive away from everything. Then left everything else. All of it. Because I truly had all I needed in the world and that was my boys.

        Sometimes I think of all I left behind and gave up without a thought, that was rightfully mine. And I would do it all again for them being the amazing humans they are today. Knowing right from wrong and living in happy marriages with loving partners. Every cent, every heirloom, every ounce of dignity I walked away from is worth it, if nothing else, for them.

        But if I knew then what I do now…….that son of a bitch would not have the day he has today.

        So if I can help be strength, guidance and support for any other woman who thought my thoughts which were, I could never……. then I’m right here! Because you can. And you will. You’ll walk with all the strength needed for those kids. And there are LOTS of us, who know and understand the steps you’re in and about to take.

        You just have to make that choice.

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              [–]Cold-Ad-1315BORN IN THE 60’s ☮️ ❤️ 0 points1 point  (6 children)

              Wow. How have you put up with this for so long? Sounds to me like it could be extreme passive aggression. Everything is driven by deep resentment, giving you nothing and knifing you under the table at the same time. He hates you on a deep level because he’s dependent on you. His separate FB page is a stab at faux independence and a selfish little swipe at you. You cannot solve anyone this messed up.

              My ex was passive aggressive- though nowhere near this bad. Still it was bad enough - he wouldn’t buy a property together, breadcrumbed then stopped sex, made me feel like nothing I felt was of any importance. Little things - would never give me a back rub (never did). If I was sick in bed (I get migraines) and asked for a cup of tea he would say yes but it never appeared or I’d have to ask again. When we were splitting up all this strange resentment going back years tumbled out, it was like a spiteful hurt little angry boy emerged from underneath a carefully constructed surface.

              What is your partners relationship to his mother like? What’s he like to the outside world?

              [–]Only_Pie_2334BORN IN THE 80’s👩🏻‍🎤🎶📟[S] 2 points3 points  (1 child)

              He’s an only child and to them he can do no wrong. To all of our friends and family he appears to be a great husband and father. Involved, supportive. The ones I’ve told have been completely shocked and are having a hard time understanding or seeing this version of him.

              [–]Cold-Ad-1315BORN IN THE 60’s ☮️ ❤️ 2 points3 points  (0 children)

              It’s often the emotional climate they are raised in. My ex had a very close knit family but his mother was very powerful. She was nice, but civility and politeness were everything. I think she crushed emotional expression in her children early on and he felt she didn’t want to see anything ‘real’ about him. I think he kind of ‘split’ and the angry demanding needy child (as we all were) was never allowed expression or to be soothed. So on some level it always remained in the driving seat - despite the fact he was an incredibly charming and popular person. He was always civil to me - he just wasn’t going to give me anything. It was like a kind of starving. I was starving.

              Not saying of course your partner is the same - but I’ve been fascinated by extreme passive aggression ever since I kind of worked out this might have been the issue with my ex. And it does sound like this might be what’s going on with yours.

              However I don’t think it can be solved. It’s a profoundly primal irreversible emotional distortion. I’m not sure id call it abuse - although it will certainly feel like it - because he probably is simply incapable of anything else. It’s the way he’s made.

              I wish you good luck and as a friend said to me when my relationship hit the rocks in a really horrible way - ‘courage, my friend’.

              [–]husheveryoneXENNIAL 📟🎶💽 0 points1 point  (3 children)

              💯 Eloquent description of this very covert type of abuser, who superficially appears like a “good husband/dad” or whatever to people who do not live in the home with him long term, and who are not his romantic partner. Underneath his facade, it is like sleeping with the enemy who hates you. But he will never verbally admit it, rather you can spot it by his words and actions never matching, right down to gambits like his faux suicide threats and secret sexual basements crap on social media etc which is calculated to make it look like he is a victim meanwhile he is calculating how to slowly destabilize and control his Wife and continue to steal her domestic labor. Very tricky. Therapy cannot help him, and couples therapy just ends up as a means for him to turn on the crocodile tears and recruit the therapist to help him abuse his Wife some more.

              I’m happily divorced from a man like this, and what helped me understand his particular brand of crazymaking chaos was the excellent book “The Covert Passive Aggressive Narcissist” by Debbie Mirza. Plus “Why Does He Do That: Inside the Minds of Angry and Controlling Men” by Lundy Bancroft (free pdf available online).

              [–]Cold-Ad-1315BORN IN THE 60’s ☮️ ❤️ 0 points1 point  (2 children)

              Yes indeed! I’ve heard of that book. I do sometimes have an issue with the label abuser - not because it isn’t, but because it suggests it’s a behaviour they can consciously control or change. I don’t think they can, because it’s the only way they can navigate the emotional world.

              Some sort of schism was created at a very young developmental age. Possibly the insistence they do not cry or have temper tantrums, or told they are not feeling what they are feeling. I’m sure there are women who suffer from this, but it does seem to be more of a male dysfunction.

              My ex was like the Truman show - the scene in the lift where you see what’s really going on. I only saw it a small number of times. The coldness, cruelty and emotional immaturity.

              I also think of it like we all made up of a system of psychological chambers with access channels linking them. I have multiple chambers and multiple link channels (messy but I’m self aware). But my ex has a brittle charming public face, then this one dark deeply buried chamber with a single channel. That chamber was running the show - but he had very limited access to it.

              During our break up - he told me he’d been suffering from horrible nightmares for some years - where he was hanging himself. I think it was all the buried stuff torturing him. His mother, though very nice, dominated him and he had a deep fear of disappointing her, consequently he associated a relationship with being suffocated - only it wasn’t me or any other partner he needed to escape from. I haven’t spoken to him in 8 years, despite us having a child together. I often wonder if he still has the nightmares.

              I wasted a lot of time trying to understand him.

              [–]husheveryoneXENNIAL 📟🎶💽 1 point2 points  (1 child)

              A lot of folks struggle with calling it abuse, because of their deep socialization to resist holding men accountable for his choices. Thanks for sharing, hopefully OP finds this dialogue a helpful way of looking at things, and crucially :::does not blame herself for the abuse::: 💜

              [–]Cold-Ad-1315BORN IN THE 60’s ☮️ ❤️ 0 points1 point  (0 children)

              I don’t struggle with calling men on abuse. what I’m saying is often with extreme passive aggression, they have no conscience control over it so there are no decisions or ‘choices’ to be made when you can’t understand your or anyone else’s emotional world. That doesn’t mean you should ever stay. In fact it tells you there is nothing you can do about it. So run.

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                [–]Imaginary-Pain959840 - 45 📟🌈💽 0 points1 point  (0 children)

                If he still hasn’t made an effort towards therapy, I would save the holiday party and present money and actively set aside funds for separating instead. You shouldn’t hide this either. He doesn’t believe there are consequences. And the emotional manipulation worked last time. So show him this time is different.

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                      [–]Dogzillas_MomGEN X 🕹️📼 0 points1 point  (2 children)

                      Have talked to your kids? Are they late teenagers? Even if they are like 13, they still see and understand more than you think they do. I’m sure they have opinions. How do they feel about their father? Maybe they don’t feel connected either. Or they hate the way he treats you. IDK, I’m making shit up.

                      But after his initial tantrum, he’s just withdrawing and waiting for the inevitable. You will have to initiate the divorce and follow up and take care of all the details… just as you’ve been taking care of everything else that’s difficult.

                      [–]Only_Pie_2334BORN IN THE 80’s👩🏻‍🎤🎶📟[S] 1 point2 points  (1 child)

                      My kids are 17f and 15m. The 17f is aware that we’ve discussed separation. I told her after she came to me and cried, saying she feels like her dad doesn’t love her. She is in therapy. My 15m doesn’t know we’ve discussed separation but I’m sure he is aware of how things are. He is very busy and just isn’t around as much. He’s never told me how he feels about his dad, but I do know he doesn’t talk to his dad like he talks to me. He’ll tell me things and follow it with “But don’t tell dad.” So I know he doesn’t feel comfortable or safe confiding in his dad, even mundane day-to-day things that shouldn’t be a big deal, he still doesn’t want me to tell my husband.

                      [–]Dogzillas_MomGEN X 🕹️📼 1 point2 points  (0 children)

                      They’re ready.

                      [–]Xx_SwordWords_xXXENNIAL 📟🎶💽 0 points1 point  (0 children)

                      He can be a good father to the kids, even if you're not together.

                      If you didn't live with him, would you need his income? If you didn't live with him, would you need the house you live in?

                      [–]ActiveDinner349740 - 45 📟🌈💽 0 points1 point  (0 children)

                      I had a guy friend go through this. He sat his wife down, told her he was carrying the burden, told her she had six months to get help and step up. She did nothing. About three months in he started prepping for his divorce. He had finances, kids visitation, etc all planned out and served her papers the day over. I know finances are a concern for you but I would start organizing everything now and get prepared. Sounds like he is super bitter so sooner rather than later is the way. Prep family and friends with your plan and ask for support.

                      [–]Mammoth_Ad_542335 - 40 📱🌈 0 points1 point  (0 children)

                      OP, get a divorce lawyer ASAP! Sounds like he already has, by the moves he's making.

                      [–]HighlyFav0red40 - 45 📟🌈💽 0 points1 point  (0 children)

                      It sounds like you are already alone. His response to your honesty was just wow - super manipulative and self-centered and confusing. How do your children respond to him? Outside of finances, what benefits do you have for staying? Does he contribute financially? I sounds like he's depressed or something.

                      [–]Anonymous021265 - 70❤️☮️ 0 points1 point  (0 children)

                      I'm sure there are people who are making assumptions about his feelings and intentions, because "Reddit", but the bottom line is that his behavior isn't working for you.

                      You don't need to assume anything about him to make a decision about your own boundaries, values, expectations, etc., and if you want to make sure you make a decision that you feel is the best for you and your children, I suggest you get yourself into counseling as soon as possible to help you sort that out.

                      [–]Echo_DriftBORN IN THE 60’s ☮️ ❤️ 0 points1 point  (0 children)

                      Emotionally unavailable. They are hard to be in "partnership" with. Counseling could help.

                      [–]karebear66GENERATION JONES 📸📻🛻 0 points1 point  (0 children)

                      He is deleting you from his life.

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                        [–]Jenna1991-nolaBORN IN THE 70’s 🪩🕺📻 0 points1 point  (0 children)

                        Write him an email reminding him to talk to someone. Tell him you will join if he wants couples counseling. Put a timeline on it and state it clearly in the email. If he doesn’t take action after that, start getting your finances in order to separate. Not sure what the rules on child support are where you live, but you will need a lawyer to help you. Start saving money for that. I recently went through similar, although my ex (separated not divorced yet) doesn’t remember the ultimatums I gave him. That’s why I’m suggesting email. You should have proof of your requests to work it out. The judge will see that he wasn’t willing to work on it and you will be favored.

                        [–]FeralCatMeowGEN X 🕹️📼 0 points1 point  (0 children)

                        Please know there are better men than this. So, so much better. You and your children deserve more.

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                            [–]Sharp_Dust_5252BORN IN THE 60’s ☮️ ❤️ 0 points1 point  (0 children)

                            Not the right one for you. Very sad. Endless terror... Or end in horror. Your choice. All the best!

                            [–]Beautiful_Cherry_55440 - 45 📟🌈💽 0 points1 point  (0 children)

                            Leave him

                            [–]StrangeAd5419BORN IN THE 80’s👩🏻‍🎤🎶📟 0 points1 point  (0 children)

                            I lived this too -

                            I needed counselling after we split and it opened my eyes to just how much abuse I actually went through. I stayed for the kids and at 1 time the ex did seek help, although he couldn't even be honest with his Dr's as to what he was doing and putting us through. I made excuses for his behaviour and put it down to his mental health. He was just abusive.

                            Be prepared that when you decide to separate from this type of person the abuse will get worse. I ended up needing an emergency non mol order and I hid that from the kids, he told them Mummy was stopping him seeing them. He wasn't stopped, he was stopped from abusing me.

                            His cheating with a coworker that I found out about was the final straw for me, I had suspected before but I didn't have any proof. He had been lying and telling so many stories to his coworkers about me that I didn't find out about until after. Told the kids I cheated on him which I never did.

                            He manages a few hours one day a week to see the kids, his choice and he still tries to control me through them. He makes a difference between the 2 of them, the older one notices he gives more attention to the younger one and tries to groom him to his way of thinking.

                            The youngest let slip to his dad that I was going out one night and they needed to be home at the agreed time that night. That started another barrage of abuse and denial he agreed to any time limits, he text them 10 minutes before arranged pick up time, he wasn't coming to take them that day as he wasn't sticking to set times.

                            Keep secret notes of every little detail and it's tough but learn the grey rock method and don't reply straight away to any texts or demands. Get a plan in place to keep yourself safe.

                            Good luck

                            [–]LizP1959BORN IN THE 50’s ⚾️🚲🎶 0 points1 point  (0 children)

                            He’s planning his single life with the IG. Better lawyer up or a lot of your money will disappear.

                            [–]Own_Celebration5462GEN X 🕹️📼 0 points1 point  (0 children)

                            Sounds like his foot is out the door and he has no intentions of going to therapy. The new FB screams that he is preparing to move on. Doesn’t sound like a huge loss for you nor for your kids.

                            [–]best_muffins98BORN IN THE 50’s ⚾️🚲🎶 0 points1 point  (0 children)

                            Sorry but his actions are indicative of cutting ties. He’ decided to not put in the work, instead he’s started shopping for your replacement. Unfortunately you married a narcissist so he’ll never understand it let alone put you first. You have been struggling a long time and deserve rest and happiness. The finances will work out, see a lawyer soon. Best wishes to you, it’s hard but you’ve been carrying 3 peoples lives, you can do this.

                            [–]curbz8140 - 45 📟🌈💽 0 points1 point  (0 children)

                            He is shopping for options before working on his marriage. He also won’t likely take any really action at bettering himself until after you leave. Speak to a lawyer or someone at a legal clinic to get a picture of your financial future if you separate

                            [–]xmismissingxBORN IN THE 90’s 🎶🎧 0 points1 point  (0 children)

                            He planning to leave once he find someone "better" in his mind thats why he is started to remove you and create secret accounts. He is delaying yoi or stringing you a long for now.

                            Start planning your exit quietly as well.

                            Meaning save or take when money (someone I saw on here said that her grandma used to take money from the food shopping money and save it up as he never went food shopping or even notice so anything you have to do on your own take it from there)

                            Start talking to an lawyer about divorce.

                            Him being a good dad is for your kids not you, he can still be a good dad with you and just towards his kid.

                            Start looking into place to go to leave. I suggest quietly leaving then have an phone conversation with him about everything legal wise.

                            [–]rpaul9578GEN X 🕹️📼 0 points1 point  (0 children)

                            He's checked out from the marriage and he is showing you from his behavior that he has no intention of following through on fixing anything. He expects divorce and he is setting it up.

                            [–]4doorsajar30 - 35 📱🌈 0 points1 point  (0 children)

                            Yes but do you realise the marriage is non-existent at this point. The fact that he would removed you from socials that you used to feature in. Hmm. That man has moved on while you are hopping he will do some work to fix the marriage. By the way, as regards your discription of him, he wasn’t really a good father, or was he? I feel that many people today tend to disqualify the people’s real characters in the name of giving the other party some grace, but that only keeps us locked in the place we know we ought to leave.

                            [–]Standard_Banana_6998ELDER MILLENNIAL 🌈🎶 0 points1 point  (0 children)

                            He's giving you lip service and hiding things from you. His past behavior is a prediction of future behavior. He will try to get away with whatever you ket him get away with. It's time for a divorce and a new future. A future for yourself and your kids without emotional abuse and neglect. You have a good thing waiting for you on the other side.

                            [–]Significant_Flan8057GEN X 🕹️📼 0 points1 point  (0 children)

                            I would start checking all of your finances and bank accounts and see if he is starting to hide assets or move money around in preparation for you filing for divorce. Because this sounds like he is just waiting for the ax to drop, but he is being shady.

                            Or maybe he just keeps expecting you to tolerate this since you’ve been doing it for the last 23 years? I mean, he begged you to come back and then he didn’t do anything about it for the next month, and you’re still here. So he has no motivation or accountability to actually do anything, so call the divorce lawyer and don’t even talk to him about this anymore. He has failed to be a partner to you for your entire marriage. He just wants to keep his free maid ship cook personal assistant, and continue to not have to actually have to make a single effort to do one thing on his part. I mean it’s been working for him for the entire marriage. Why not just keep going?

                            He doesn’t believe that you’re gonna leave, but I would definitely not put it past him to be moving money around to try to screw you over if you do actually leave. This is why you need to make an exit plan and keep it secret and do not do anything about it until everything is already in place and set up before you walk out the door.

                            Speaking of divorce lawyers find the top three ones in your area, and go and set up consultations with each one of them in private and don’t tell anyone. Because if you have consultations with all the best ones in the area if you don’t hire them, that will preclude him from hiring any of them just because they consulted with you on the same divorce. Little bit sneakiness, he hasn’t played all of this time you might as well play offense at this point.

                            I’m sorry that you are at this point in your marriage, but you don’t have to waste any more time on this, get out and move on with your life. You are gonna be way better off single and free of this albatross around your neck.

                            Just think about how much easier your life is gonna be when you’re not taking care of an entire man baby on top of your self and your children. Plus the stress of a partner who is quite literally emotionally vacant?? You can do this, I’m very proud of you?? 💘

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                              [–]clairejv40 - 45 📟🌈💽 -1 points0 points  (3 children)

                              Has he looked for a therapist, or has he not even done that?

                              [–]Only_Pie_2334BORN IN THE 80’s👩🏻‍🎤🎶📟[S] 0 points1 point  (2 children)

                              He told me he’s bought a couple of self-help books 😒. I asked why he hasn’t started counseling yet and his answer was “I just haven’t called yet.”

                              [–]clairejv40 - 45 📟🌈💽 0 points1 point  (0 children)

                              And why hasn't he called yet?

                              [–]glitteringdreamer45 - 50 📟🌈💽 -1 points0 points  (1 child)

                              Most men, particularly those of a certain age, think they're doing just fine and can't be bothered to work on themselves or their relationship. I went to counseling with my ex, and he said, verbatim, I'm happy with myself and don't need to change anything. The counselor told him that he'd never be able to maintain a healthy long term relationship with that attitude. I bailed.

                              You have a long road ahead of you should you choose to stay. He's had a lifetime of you taking care of everything so he honestly doesn't know to watch for these things needing to be done. Be VERY clear in what you want/expect from him. Perhaps give him a couple of reminders (do not schedule an appointment for him!) and then rehash everything in the spring. If you see no changes then that's your answer.

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