all 47 comments

[–]moschocolate14B 187 points188 points  (1 child)

I remember when I got my first job. My boss was a single woman—this was back in the 80s.

She took a bit of leave to get sterilized. We became close later and she told me that her sister was similar to yours, 5 kids and pregnant by a deadbeat.

She wanted to avoid the love that found her sister, that even if she herself fell in love. She was ahead of her time.

[–]PantheraFeliformiaAlly 9 points10 points  (0 children)

In a similar situation over thirty years ago after having my daughter. I got sterilised when I realised the abuse I endured by her father. He literally dumped me on the side walk right after I found out I was pregnant. He wouldn't even let me get my belongings from his parents home where I was living.

Ironically my daughter went onto abuse me too. I'm glad I never had anymore children. Just not the life for he.

[–]Complex_Hope_8789 126 points127 points  (3 children)

You underestimate how powerful gaslighting is and how badly it can wreck your judgement. Everyone thinks they’d never fall for abuse until you suddenly wake up and realize you’re years deep into it.

You’re especially not understanding that most times it’s not just the abuser gaslighting. It’s everyone else around you too. - are you sure? - marriage is work - but he’s such a nice guy - he’s trying.

Not to mention if there is a church or other “trusted” men and women in your life telling you that his behaviour is normal, you have to be the bigger person, you have to forgive, you have to get over it.

It’s not just the abuser making you doubt yourself. It’s also often everyone around you.

[–][deleted] 67 points68 points  (1 child)

No I am aware I’m just venting because when you’ve been hearing someone vent for A DECADE it gets to a point

[–]Fun-Entertainment9044B 16 points17 points  (0 children)

I think you both have a point. As you said your comment was more venting and had some humor to it which we also need because it is hard to control the inner turmoil we have when others are suffering but not able to exit the pattern. The only relief is kind of making a sarcastic remark. But also, yeah abuse is terrible. It destroys people mentally physically over time.

[–]yourestandingonit 2 points3 points  (0 children)

This is well said and important to remember. I’m dealing with a similar situation as OP with my own sister and when I get frustrated I remind myself that blaming the victim is just like when people blame the victim of grape. “Why didn’t you just say no?” “Why were you so nice to him?” “You could have just left.” “You shouldn’t have been there in the first place.” “You should have fought harder.”

Unfortunately I assume that most of us have experienced sexual assault in some form or another, and sometimes it can take a stupid amount of time to stop blaming ourselves for it. So imagine what years and years of gaslighting does to a persons mind.

It IS frustrating because we love the person suffering, but let’s be frustrated in the right direction. 🫶

[–]Competitive_Carob_664B 107 points108 points  (4 children)

I'm in no place to judge - cause, hi, I'm the girl from LaLaLaLetMeExplain episode about guy watching snuff :') and then, I still thought I am the one in the wrong. Discovering 4B was the best thing that happened in my life - I am so lucky not to end up like them. Socialization is stronggg.

[–]Financial_Sweet_6894B 107 points108 points  (0 children)

I made the mistake of asking for advice in the relationship sub 6 years ago when I found all the half naked/super sexualized pictures of women on my ex’s phone. You can just imagine the responses I for calling me the problem and saying things like “poor OP’s boyfriend!” Now I look back and laugh at how stupid and pathetic it all was.

[–]NoDassOkayAlly 33 points34 points  (0 children)

Hahah…same here. I used to be the kind of person who’d ask questions like this.

[–]Substantial-Barber104B 18 points19 points  (1 child)

Dude me too. I think about it all the time. How the reason I didn’t end up like them is mostly luck and circumstance. If certain abusers hadn’t left me, I don’t know if I would have ever gotten out. There’d probably be nothing left. How I thought I was losing something at the time. What a blessing.

[–]Competitive_Carob_664B 7 points8 points  (0 children)

Seriously, cause this guy told me "I think watching movies where women ((cause it was never men)) are killed is art" and I was like "LALA IS IT A RED FLAG OR NOT, CAUSE THE VIBE IS WEIRD" (Katie Price episode, if someone's interested). I was batshit, and I am lucky I found 4B just in time. I feel sorry for women who are yet to do that.

[–]Maroon_sun_8354B 71 points72 points  (1 child)

Jesus tap dancing christ o.0 We been done dirty so long…

[–]Fun_Blackberry28394B 12 points13 points  (0 children)

"Jesus tap dancing christ" lmao. I love that.

[–]BigLibrary2895 47 points48 points  (1 child)

🤣🤣🤣🤣

"I mean I don't know, gurl. How often do you get a chance to be disrespected but also put your health at risk everytime you lay down with the town penis?"

I'm sorry your sister sucks. Do what you can for your nieces, OP. I would say your nephews, too, but something tells me your sister is a bird and all over that. The pick me to toxic boymom pipeline is indefatigable.

[–]beck_cinnamon 29 points30 points  (0 children)

The average woman hates herself so much that she will unthinkingly put her life at risk everyday for men yet men still complain about a " loneliness epidemic"

Make it make sense.

[–]Hindsight2O2OExploring 47 points48 points  (0 children)

The indoctrination we get is pow-er-ful. Hands down the most valuable aspect of going to therapy for me was simply having someone whose answers i could trust when i asked "Am i crazy? IS this my fault?" Most of the people in my life had a vested interest in keeping me confused and guilt ridden. Even if you're aware that your reality has warped it's hard to find the edge of the forest and get out. Good luck to your sis.

[–]OddSpend23 39 points40 points  (1 child)

“Here are text messages showing how my partner verbally abuses me because I wore leggings in public, should I leave him/am I overreacting?” GIRL WHY WOULDNT YOU LEAVE HIM. Like literally give me one good reason to stay. Oh wait, you can’t. Other than not wanting to be alone. Like being alone is the worst fucking thing that could happen to a woman. Astonishing.

[–]MeanderingUnicorn 31 points32 points  (5 children)

At some point people have to be held accountable for their own choices. “But you don’t understand abuse!!!” I do actually. You still have autonomy. If you want to keep choosing idiots that’s fine but don’t expect sympathy from me. 🤷🏼‍♀️

[–]yourestandingonit 0 points1 point  (4 children)

This is a terrible take and exhibits a blatant lack of understanding of the psychology of abuse.

[–]MeanderingUnicorn 5 points6 points  (3 children)

Obviously it is much more nuanced than my comment implies. Nothing happens in a vacuum and decisions to stay are extremely complex. That said, it IS within a person’s capabilities to leave. Drug addiction is also complex but ultimately the choice of using and decision to stop lies solely with the addict. I’m not saying it’s not difficult or doesn’t require help.

[–]yourestandingonit 1 point2 points  (0 children)

You are entitled to your opinion though and I apologize for how brusque my words were. It wasn’t necessary.

[–]yourestandingonit 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Youre right, assuming a person is fully educated and self aware (not just “knowing” a relationship is abusive because it’s been defined by someone they likely disagree with) and consciously going out into the world saying “I want to find an abusive relationship because I personally find it fulfilling and desirable” then absolutely. Blame’s on them 100% and I too would step back and say I wish you the best.

[–]Tatooine164B 25 points26 points  (0 children)

This is like every post in the am I overreacting sub. I had to get out of that, how many times can you read the same experience.

[–]beck_cinnamon 26 points27 points  (0 children)

Men say there's a loneliness epidemic yet I only ever see women being brainwashed into being ride or dies, losing their virginity as soon as possible and having sex with them for free no matter how much physical and mental violence they put them through, blaming themselves if anything goes wrong.

[–]husheveryoneAlly 18 points19 points  (0 children)

You have my sympathies. Systemic misogyny often shows up in lowkey reproductive coercion and big time trauma bonding like that. Proud of you and those who have broken generational curses, and I want to validate you how it’s really disappointing and exhausting when we can’t take our sisters with us on the journey. 💜

[–]tizillahzed15 17 points18 points  (1 child)

I stopped feeling sorry for this type of woman a long time ago.

[–]sibilina8 4 points5 points  (0 children)

OMG same! :D

[–]Vashiur4B 12 points13 points  (0 children)

Wait for the magic number, aka, 100. Gurrrl, just let the man be. And remember, it's always your fault. You're a blemish and are never enough. /s

The power dynamics always have been in favour of males. Our sisters still have their wings bound and eyes blinded. I'm trying to be a beacon of hope for them by exposing the truth! I always speak about feminism now by planting those little seeds and waiting for them to explode like time-bombs and to help open their eyes. /gen

Down the patriarchy

[–]Just-world_fallacyExploring 9 points10 points  (0 children)

"He keeps her together" = if she starts to wake up to all the shit she has been eating, she might tell everyone to fuck off.

[–]LeNueve_ 7 points8 points  (0 children)

"The pattern you are describing is known as the Cycle of Violence (or Abuse), a recurring dynamic where the relationship oscillates through three main phases: the Tension-Building Phase, where stress and minor abuse escalate; the Explosion/Acute Crisis Phase, which is the release of tension through a severe abusive incident; and the Honeymoon Phase, where the abuser expresses remorse, is loving, and promises change, which emotionally traps the victim by giving them false hope and reinforcing their dependency, making it extremely difficult to leave the relationship despite the harm" I do not blame the victims, cause it's what they are, victims, they can see the abuse but as long as the "bond" is always reinforced, it will be difficult for them to leave cause they think they have a lot to lose than to win

[–]BlueberriesRule4B 6 points7 points  (0 children)

I’ll answer from my own unfortunate experience. I was brainwashed to believe a woman is incomplete without her man. It was so systematic that it took 2 very abusive husbands to wake up.

Am I completely free of the brainwash? No. However, I’m aware of it and dealing with it when the inner talk comes to my attention (things like “well of course things don’t work the way you want.. you can’t even keep a man” and other crazy believes that was instilled in me since childhood)

Now, looking back at how I did everything in my power to escape the prison called marriage, I can appreciate how strong and motivated I am. Back then I believed I had no choice but fight for my freedom. Now I see it was a brave choice not many can take.

I don’t blame women who stay or do t know how to live without a man, it’s extremely hard to break away from brainwash, especially if trauma is involved.

Instead, I celebrate women’s empowerment and wins even if they’re small. The world is against us! It’s not a conspiracy.

[–]Substantial-Barber104B 5 points6 points  (0 children)

That suuuuuucks. I’m so sorry. It’s so freaking crazy once we wake up to see this thing women feel they can’t live without, is the thing that’s destroying their lives. How do we stay so blind. I mean I know how, but HOW!? I hate seeing kids being brought into the mess.

One of my best friends told me she was pregnant today with her fiancé and of course I acted happy with her. Thankfully it was over text and she couldn’t see my face. Because standing in my kitchen I went NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!! Fuck.

I was really hoping she’d snap out of it before the wedding. It’s your typical. She works a lot, she cleans, she cooks, she manages everything, the pets, she works out, she looks good, she’s an independent baddie.

He moved into her house, goes into his office sometimes, has no interest in exercise, and complains when she asks him to clean up after himself and jokes in public that she’s always on him. The sex for fun has already stopped. He doesn’t get laid because he makes her mommy, and she resents it. She complains all the time about him - but it always starts with “I know I’m probably being hormonal, I’m just grumpy, I’m overreacting.” - to validly infuriating bullshit things. Like, last time it was that she came home after long day to him making dinner…for just himself.

They’ve been trying to get pregnant forever and he never went to the doctor, she asked multiple times, to get himself checked, in-spite of her never ending stress and careful management of diet, restrictions in case she was, planning everything around her cycle. She was all if you get checked and can’t - then we can know and I don’t have to keep doing all this, he just didn’t. And watched her struggle for a year.

Ugh. What if it’s a girl!? What if it’s a boy!? In this world? I already love that kid by proxy. What are we gonna dooooooo 😭😭😭

[–]sibilina8 4 points5 points  (0 children)

I understand your sentiment... But I have come to terms with the fact that there has to be a limit between "feminist understanding of women's socialisation" and also "treating adult women as infants" unable to make decisions and suffer the consequences. I believe that we, women, are able to make decisions, even bad ones. And that we have agency.

Now, back to the point. I am in the same position as you, in this case with a really close friend. She will have her first child with a man who also doesn't give a shit for her and only cares for what she DOES for HIM. They have had a relationship for more than a decade, even though she confided in me multiple times that she is unhappy. As a bonus, she expects me to always hear about her marriage problems, the only theme she likes to talk about, BUT in public she likes to point out how "alone and single" I am in a really condescending way. As if having a shitty relationship is way better and more accomplished than being single and with mental peace.

So, as you can imagine, I have reached a point where I can't be understanding anymore. Girl, I am tired of being your crying shoulder; now that's on you.
My advice? DON'T give a f*ck, she has to see it for herself.

[–]kat_niss1 4 points5 points  (0 children)

6 kids? No way in hell even if he was a perfect husband and of course we know that doesn’t exist. Dump his ass

[–]DarbyGirl 2 points3 points  (2 children)

Its one of those dynamics that are really hard to understand until you're the one in the middle of it. I always said that cheating was a dealbreaker for me. It took me 3 tries to leave my ex. I do remember when i found out that it felt like everything made sense, his behaviors all made sense. I remember thinking "this is how I get out". That thought didn't last too long because he knew how to push my buttons. I ended up comforting him.

I know right. Girl. But he knew how to guilt trip me. He knew what strings to pull, he begged and pleaded, he made so many promises. I was a people pleaser, often not standing up for myself because I didn't want to upset someone else.

"Marriage is hard work"
"You have to fight for your relationships"
"We've been together 7 years, i owe it to give another 6 months and see what happens".

Leaving was the hardest thing I ever did. It took me another 6 years before I got out, and that was only because I started seriously thinking it'd be easier for me to die than leave. I doubted the decision every damn minute. Once he realized I was actually leaving he ramped up the lovebombing. I forced myself to take ever single step towards freedom. I knew it was the right choice but it was absolutely terrifying.

I've been out and single for 4 years. I'll never be with a man again. I try to give these women some grace, they know it's not right but it's terrifying to think it. Being direct helped. Having other women tell me my feelings were correct, that what was happening wasn't right or normal, helped.

[–]Sad-Peach7279 2 points3 points  (0 children)

I've been in abusive relationships, I think the vast majority of women at some point in their lives have been abused. Yes it's fucking scary, you have no self esteem, you have been told you are the problem, made to think you need your abuser and the ups and downs are very addictive but leaving is always an option - it is dangerous so she'll need to start planning it and do it discreetly. I hope one day she gets the courage to leave him.

 If she can't do it for herself she should do it for children, they'll grow up either traumatised from seeing their mother abused or grow up thinking it's normal leading them to either accept being a victim of abuse or the abuser. 

I'm so glad I escaped my abuser and that my son never witnessed it. 

[–]BlackMagicWorman 1 point2 points  (0 children)

I’m not here to put victims down. There’s a lot of complex history in these relationships and traumas.

[–]No_Blackberry_6286 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Only answering the title question: YES!!!

[–]Ju24694B 1 point2 points  (0 children)

This is why I love the r/childfree sub people often try to make rage baiting post on there but the comments aren’t having it. For example they’ll be like: “boyfriend keeps trying to get me pregnant and is tampering my birth control despite me not wanting kids ever should I leave him??” The comments: “Do we really have to tell you? No stay with him and let him ruin your birth control and take over your body autonomy” 🤣 I imagine that sub gets multiple posts like that a year and are SICK of it. So their responses are valid atp.

[–]Background-Slice99414B 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Ma'am, this is a 4-B group. I'll give you two guesses what our answer would be, and the first one doesn't count.

[–]avocadodacova1 0 points1 point  (0 children)

And men will break up if she wore leggings lmao I hate this weird double standard