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I did something incredibly inappropriate at work but it proved my point (self.TwoXChromosomes)

submitted by broken-imperfect

Today, my male coworker and male manager were talking about the male loneliness epidemic and I heard them say something about how hard men have it on dating apps. And I jumped in and said "you think women have an easy time on dating apps?" And they both said they thought men were unequivocally oppressed on dating apps.

So, I pulled up my tinder. And I handed it to them and said, you have 10 minutes to scroll through these oppressed men and find me ONE that you think would make a suitable partner.

Some of my favorite quotes included:

"Why is he holding a gun to his head?"

"Why is he naked?"

"Is... he being intimate with another woman in this picture?" (The answer was yes)

"Do you think he showers?" (Answer was probably not)

"There is a moldy Starbucks drink behind him."

Finally, they did find a man who looked like a nice guy, he looked clean and there were no guns or dick picks, and his bio wasn't great but it was general and acceptable.

I match with him. His first (and only) message came up about 10 minutes later, and he says "u gon let me fuck?" I also showed them this message.

Anyways, they no longer believe woman are just violently bullying average looking men on dating apps. They accept that men are their biggest enemies when it comes to online dating.

Should I let my manager swipe on tinder for me? No, I absolutely shouldn't, especially not in the office. Do I think it was worth it? Yes.

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[–]ReasonableAmbition13 3118 points3119 points  (50 children)

I was commiserating with some friends about how rough the dating apps are and a married guy in the group chimed in and insisted they can’t be that bad.

We went through a bunch of profiles and his comment was “okay, but where are the good guys?” I think three girls yelled “EXACTLY!” all at the same time.

[–]Anticode 1302 points1303 points  (43 children)

A handful of years back I decided to run an experiment and copy/paste my (male) personal OkCupid profile into a new female-seeking-male account, partially to see how my (admittedly eccentric) personality tidbits would be perceived in a female form - but mostly out of morbid curiosity.

"Her" existence was only implied, since I wasn't going to reply to messages or swipe on other people - I wasn't that curious (or sociopathic). I used some stock footage of what I felt would be an equivalently witchy/attractive female version of myself. I set up the account then planned to leave it untouched until the next morning.

But incoming messages/notifications started flowing immediately, a veritable torrent of garbage. I skimmed through for a mere couple of minutes, and immediately began to feel viscerally nauseated by what I saw - as well as offended, disgusted, confused...

I shut down the experiment a couple of hours later, completely sickened with what I saw. I did at least wait to see if more high quality or purposeful messages would show up later on, but... Nope! Not really, sad as it was. Maybe 5% of those messages even contained a sign they read anything about "her" profile or personality/interests at all. If it wasn't foul, it was irrelevant. If it wasn't irrelevant, it was perplexing. If it wasn't perplexing, it was threatening.

At best, the vast majority of what I heard was about the same level of "sexy" and/or "respectful" as what you'd hear shouted at a petting zoo by a batch of elementary students trying to get the goats to come closer to the fence.

This experience shook me more than I'd have guessed and sticks with me to this day. Unexpectedly, I found myself feeling bad for women because many of them have "no choice" but to deal with men because that's just what they're attracted to. All she can do is kiss the frogs and hope for a prince; or get used to constant ribbiting.

Whenever I hear people talk about how hard things are for guys, I feel like laughing now. Me? I now feel incredibly lucky to be a straight man looking for women. When I get messages, even if I only get a few a week, they're thoughtful and presented with poise - as if I actually might be something more advanced than a weird petting-zoo goat...

[–]Conflictedxconfused 626 points627 points  (32 children)

I appreciate you doing an experiment to walk a mile in other people's shoes, and wish that more people gave it a try. Imagine that feeling offended, disgusted, confused but starting from a very young age for girls. Imagine getting those sort of comments from the time that you're 12. And then being told to handle it by dressing differently or not flirting with people or leading people on. What you experienced with your experiment is unfortunately daily reality for many girls and women. How weird it is, to not be considered human but more like a goat at a petting zoo. And to further your analogy, the elementary school kids get mad when the goats are not falling at the sound of their calls 😂

[–]Anticode 308 points309 points  (5 children)

And to further your analogy, the elementary school kids get mad when the goats are not falling at the sound of their calls

"Teacher, teacher, help!"

"What's wrong, Jimmy?"

"...The goat won't fuck me, but I already spent 25 cents on the pellet dispenser and everything!"

"Ah. Well, have you tried asking the goat about its day?"

"...No? Why would I give a shit about what a goat thinks? I'm just trying to get some action!"

__

Jokes aside, this joke accidentally turned out a bit too more on-the-nose than I intended...

It's really messed up, all this. I spend quite a bit of time these days explaining to men the reality women experience, but I don't call it "feminism" because I think it transcends that - and they wouldn't listen if they realized that word applied, of course. It's just objective reality, these things.

A large fraction of the "men's rights" folks have no clue that what they'd perceive as "feminist ideology" already contains a bunch of the answers they claim to be searching for... But if you refuse to acknowledge women have anything to teach, you'll never learn the lesson you don't realize you need. I hold very little sympathy for those upset because women prefer "the bear", so to speak.

It's not fair that those messages are suddenly reasonable when spoken by someone like me for once, but I'd rather them hear it at all. If they refuse to listen when it comes straight from the horse's mouth, maybe they'll listen when it comes out of the mouth of a cock. Like a rooster, I mean. Not a... Nevermind. Whatever, I'm rolling with it.

[–]zadtheinhaler 155 points156 points  (3 children)

To add to what the above poster stated (and let me tell you, the goat analogy is perfect!), I find it appalling, as a man, that when on uber/Lyft/uberEats, et al, it's better to have a male/androgynous name, because if you have delivery instructions "just leave it on the porch", it'll be adhered to, but if you use your "female-coded" name, you get messages of "I can't leave the car, come down and get it, bb" or something to that effect.

Part of the issue is that while such services, at least here in Canada, require that you get a criminal records check, what many don't realize is that it's just filtering out the guys that have been caught being creeps, which requires a level of certitude to happen in the first place (still on my first cup of coffee, please excuse if my phrasing is objectionable).

I've often, in the last few years, thought of the possibility of an app that pairs women up with men to stand in as a family member/SO so that their medical concerns can be addressed the way they should be, but the same problem applies, that just because they're "clean" doesn't mean that they won't try to take advantage of the situation.

It's a rather fucked-up situation.

[–]UNICORN_SPERM 30 points31 points  (2 children)

I started referring to my partner as "the penis" when I've had it dealing with misogyny.

"Hey, I really need this truck fixed and the guys at the shop are jerking me around. Can you be The Penis for me and call about it?"

Lovely lad that he is, he gets it and helps me out.

I wish I could bring him to doctor appointments.

[–]zadtheinhaler 14 points15 points  (1 child)

That's awesome, haha.

Somehow though, while I still like the idea of an app to pair women up with "certified non-creep" men for stuff like medical issues (or getting vehicles fixed!), I don't think we should call it ThePenis.app.

[–]UNICORN_SPERM 6 points7 points  (0 children)

I much prefer the idea of The Sherlock.

[–]MplsLawyerAuntie 31 points32 points  (0 children)

What a homie. Thanks, man 🙌

[–]Deathspiral222 180 points181 points  (25 children)

(Male) My daughter is twelve which is why I am here. I have already had to punch a guy, at a fucking SCHOOL EVENT, for cornering her and trying to put his hands on her.

Do you have any advice whatsoever that I can give to her for how to handle these comments and actions when I am not around? She is 12!

I told her to yell, but it just makes me so angry and at the same time frustrated that I don’t know what to tell her to do. I made it clear she did absolutely nothing wrong and that some men are weirdos but it’s not enough.

And yes, the police were involved and the guy is permanently trespassed from the entire school district.

[–]Basically Leslie KnopeWYenginerdWY 122 points123 points  (0 children)

She is 12!

When I was ten, my dad left me in the car with the doors locked while he ran into a gas station to grab something. A man walked by the car, staring at me, and continued staring at me until he was nearly looking backwards while walking. It starts so fucking early and it makes me want to scream with rage every time I think about it.

[–]Conflictedxconfused 116 points117 points  (0 children)

I'm really glad that you were there for her and able to get that guy out away and trespassed. In the wake of the event, I can only imagine the terror that you feel knowing that creeps like that are out there and perceiving her as a target. And fortunately or unfortunately, she's not yet old enough to realize that the world has a lot of unknowns, a lot more normalized and accepted danger than she should ever live with.

I remember being at her age and my mom suddenly giving me a lot of strange and cryptic warnings about bad people and I just wrote her off as being paranoid. Now that I'm older, I see what she was getting at. When I was a kid I could not fathom people dehumanizing others like the petting goat analogy above. But the older I get, the more I realize that that is actually how a lot of guys see girls and women, as bipedal livestock.

[–]crazylikeaf0x 98 points99 points  (3 children)

In case this isn't advice you've heard - if she ever does get caught in a situation where she needs to get the attention of strangers, it is better to scream "fire". People are more likely to get involved if there's possible personal injury to be avoided. "I'm sorry I was mistaken about the fire, but this man I do not know is trying to touch me, can you call the police please?"

Or, go absolutely apeshit crazy, make yourself vomit, whatever it is that you can think of in the moment to throw off their plan. Men aren't generally used to that kind of reaction.

If there are local self-defense classes she could enrol in, that may help her feel more confident too. It is helpful to her self esteem to know that she can trust herself to defend herself in these situations, especially as she gets older and starts to go to parties. It may also give you some peace of mind as a parent. 

I'm sorry she's had to deal with this horrible noise so soon, and sending best of luck to you both. 

[–]thepatricianswife 64 points65 points  (0 children)

Can confirm the “going absolutely apeshit crazy” route is incredibly effective. One time my friend and were walking around Chicago and this dude with some flyers just WOULD NOT leave us the fuck alone (kept interrupting/blocking our path, it was both annoying and creepy) so after about the third or fourth time, my friend finally stopped, took his flyer and—staring him dead in the eyes—crumpled it into a ball and ate it right in front of him.

Dude definitely left us alone after that, lmao.

[–]Basically Leslie KnopeWYenginerdWY 63 points64 points  (0 children)

Or, go absolutely apeshit crazy, make yourself vomit, whatever it is that you can think of

Barking like a dog is usually a winner

[–]IveNeverBeenOnASlide 13 points14 points  (0 children)

I’ll pick my nose

[–]childhoodsurvivor 86 points87 points  (1 child)

Y'all should read "Why Does He Do That" by Lundy Bancroft together.

It's a book that explains how and why men abuse women so that you can learn to recognize the abusive behaviors and avoid them. This book saves lives, literally.

Google it for a free online version or check out your local library (and the free Libby app).

[–]Lifeboatb 36 points37 points  (0 children)

Hopefully the dad would read it first and then condense it into a 12-year-old-appropriate version. There are some really awful stories in that book.

[–]DateLikeADomme 88 points89 points  (8 children)

Before teaching her how to physically or vocally respond in these situations, you first need to teach her situational awareness. She needs to know how to quickly assess and size up the entire environment.

Are other adults within earshot? Are other adults in her line of sight? Is she indoors or outdoors? How much bigger/older is he? Are there security cameras around? Are there vehicles nearby? Does the harasser seem to have buddies nearby? Is there a path of egress?

The reason I’m pointing these things out is because if she is alone, and she yells at a male who is harassing her, or if she takes any kind of aggressive defensive action, there’s always the risk that he will harm her physically — which can happen very quickly.

As a dad, I’m sure it’s hard to hear — but you first need to teach her how to assess her surroundings and quickly do the calculus on what action is safest. Sometimes it might be to tell the jerk off and get a teacher’s attention. Sometimes it might be to immediately turn around and move as far away from the harasser, as quickly as possible. In a public space like a shopping center or concert, it might be to understand when to move through an environment in a pack with other girls, and not let anyone separate and go solo.

I’m sorry. I wish it were different.

[–]DateLikeADomme 54 points55 points  (0 children)

Oh and I also highly recommend getting (and then reading with) her a book called “The Gift of Fear” by Gavin de Becker. It’s about how we can use our intuitive spidey-sense to anticipate danger and de-escalate it.

I believe it was Margaret Atwood who said, “Men are afraid women will laugh at them. Women are afraid men will kill them.”

The ubiquity of violence and depletion of human empathy in today’s world mean that women and girls need to be eternally on guard. It’s upsetting to be objectified, but it’s more upsetting to be assaulted.

[–]Redheadbabe22 28 points29 points  (6 children)

I love this and I’ll also add tell her to find the nearest woman and pretend that’s her mom, sister or anything. Or yell MOM and watch every woman look even if they aren’t a mom.

[–]DateLikeADomme 28 points29 points  (3 children)

Oh! this is such a good tip, it just reminded me:

another good thing to teach girls of any age: they can walk up to pretty much any older female and quietly say, “That man is making me uncomfortable, please help me.”

I’ve even seen college-aged girls go full mama bear when approached this way. The instinct to protect is strong.

[–]Redheadbabe22 19 points20 points  (2 children)

I always tell my young son “if you ever get separated from me, your dad, or anybody else walk up to a mom with kids. Best bet.

[–]DateLikeADomme 25 points26 points  (1 child)

I was talking about this with a group of parents once, and had a dad say, “But aren’t you teaching them that men are automatically scary?”

I thought, My dude… sorry to say that the statistics here don’t support your case. But I just said, “No one is going to say ‘find a mom because dads are bad’. You just tell the child, ‘look for a mom because moms know what to do when a kid is lost.”

[–]Redheadbabe22 11 points12 points  (0 children)

Ding ding ding! I used to say look for a woman but after watching and listening to some trafficking survivor’s stories I’ve come to realize women can be traffickers too, sadly. Since then I have changed that to Look for a woman with kids.

If I were there I would’ve looked at your buddy and said Have you met any guys? Guys are creepy and weird af- not all of them but sadly everyone has a story with a creepy or weird dude in it

[–]DateLikeADomme 16 points17 points  (1 child)

This is a good thing to teach little kids too— if they get lost in a public place. “Find the closest mommy and ask her to help you. Let’s practice… look around now and guess who the moms are?” Even kids aged 3-4 can be taught to look for a stroller, another child, or at least a woman of middle age.

[–]Redheadbabe22 19 points20 points  (0 children)

I’m gonna be so honest here but when I was 11/12 the BEST thing my dad ever taught me was 1) a really nice right hook 2) “When it comes to a guy there is NO SUCH THING as fair fighting. You do whatever you have to do to get away. I will take care of the rest.” I’m 30 and these are the things I’ve taken away the most from that time until now. There was a few times from 17-early 20s where I was in scary situations (not by choice) with dating and I called my dad and he always drops everything to come and deal with it. I love my dad 🥹

[–]Raghaille1 15 points16 points  (0 children)

I told my kids to remind themselves that if they can be weird, I can be rude.

Read Gavin deBecker book about fear and about how to protect yourself by listening to your instinct.

Read Lundy Bancroft why does he do that? For types of manipulative people particularly men.

Read up on the shark cage analogy for being hit on in a pub.

Read when I say no, I feel guilty to help her figure out what to say in difficult situations.

If you want to go all, I then read women surviving men because it hooks onto the Stockholm fawning aspect of heterosexual relationships.

There was also a recent book I had about fawning by Dr. Ingrid somebody which talks about the things that you do in order to stay safe. It will be a good one to talk about how women default to fawning in order to protect ourselves. But in actual fact you need trust your instincts and deal with stuff.

[–]darkdesertedhighway 14 points15 points  (1 child)

I would suggest talk to her, and plainly. Explain to her that if anybody makes her uncomfortable, she doesn't have to be polite or nice. And define uncomfortable can be anything from someone catcalling, leering at her, cornering her, grabbing, rubbing up against her etc. (all things I experienced from 11 onwards.)

Explain these people can be anybody. Man or woman, young or old. That if she feels sketched out, to listen to that feeling.

Then explain if you're not around, she should ask for help from trusted people, ie. Other women, groups of people, uniformed staff (security, police, team member, bus driver). Explain she needs to get away from that person or people and seek others. If she has to pretend she knows the other people, then so be it. Anybody savvy enough will get it. Even if she doesn't have to pretend, she can ask for help directly.

Consider getting her a phone or panic button. Tell her if she feels sketched out, to call you or someone else you trust and talk loudly and clearly to you. Tell her to describe her surroundings, and even describe the person. While making sure she stays in a safe, open space and near others. Tell her to not end up in isolated places, or stuck in deadends.

Also, consider teaching her the "help me" hand gesture. That may broadcast subtlety to someone else who knows it.

And consider making up a password ("your dad told me to pick you up", "what's the password?") and a code word or two. (She texts you "hey dad, when is Spots birthday again?" means "come and pick me up now").

I hate I'm even writing all this but all this I've learned from experience. And all because of dudes I met in the wild or knew via family or school.

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    [–]You are now doing kegelsThe_Wingless 137 points138 points  (0 children)

    Honestly the fact that I'm still (also) attracted to men at this point in my life is just proof that sexuality is not a choice.

    [–]Coffee Coffee CoffeeUnknown_990 57 points58 points  (3 children)

    ' theyre thoughtful, and  presented with poise - as if i actually might be something more advanced than a weird petting - zoo goat'

     Lol, this is why i just like women so much better🌹. I mean i used to date guys but, yeah, this whole thread just proved a point🙌, and im not playing thier game anymore and wasting my time and energy on that.  

    [–]Anticode 45 points46 points  (2 children)

    That whole ordeal is a big reason why I later began wondering if I totally missed a critical element of why I often have "good luck" dating... As it turns out, I wasn't really ever approaching women like a man does, I was approaching women like a woman might; and I had no clue. I'd have figured I was just kinda autistic.

    I'd be cautious to say that could be "my secret" in the open if it wasn't for the fact that you'd have to genuinely understand women or one's own femininity (or both) to some degree to even initialize that as a "strategy".

    Which is sad and funny to consider that if there was a "cheatcode" to get with women, it couldn't be used unless you'd find the idea of a cheatcode offensively ridiculous in the first place - on top of the fact that you wouldn't even need it anyway. ...That'd probably make a pretty cool educational short story, actually.

    [–]lube4saleNoRefunds 39 points40 points  (0 children)

    Which is sad and funny to consider that if there was a "cheatcode" to get with women, it couldn't be used unless you'd find the idea of a cheatcode offensively ridiculous in the first place

    Reminds me of being in college and a "friend" in class asked me how I cheated to get a good score on the test. I told him I secretly stayed up all night and memorized the relevant information since the professor couldn't spot a cheat sheet in my brain.

    [–]Bundt-lover 16 points17 points  (0 children)

    As it turns out, I wasn't really ever approaching women like a man does, I was approaching women like a woman might

    You were approaching people like a person might!

    [–]cantreasonwithstupid 20 points21 points  (0 children)

    I kinda wish they would do this exercise at university..... eek

    [–][deleted] 23 points24 points  (0 children)

    This is a great experiment, and more men need to do this. It won't lead to a complete understanding (because women deal with this crap every day, often multiple times a day), but more men need to see how they come across

    [–]UNICORN_SPERM 5 points6 points  (0 children)

    At best, the vast majority of what I heard was about the same level of "sexy" and/or "respectful" as what you'd hear shouted at a petting zoo by a batch of elementary students trying to get the goats to come closer to the fence.

    Oh my god this is the perfect analogy.

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      [–]xPrincessHalo 69 points70 points  (0 children)

      Exactly. People who aren’t in the dating scene just don’t get how rough it actually is. Seeing the profiles firsthand really drives home why so many women are burned out by it.

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        [–]estragon26 7882 points7883 points  (116 children)

        PERFECT

        I'm sick of people saying how easy dating must be for women. It's like telling someone who posted a job and got 400 applicants they have it easy even though none meet the qualifications 🙃

        [–]Redqueenhypo 2031 points2032 points  (26 children)

        And the job is bank teller, and at least 133 of the applicants have one or more disclosed or undisclosed embezzling convictions.

        [–]brina_cd 772 points773 points  (9 children)

        And at least 20 have armed robbery convictions...

        [–]You are now doing kegelswaitingfordeathhbu 322 points323 points  (3 children)

        And 187 of them brought a dead fish to the interview.

        [–]TehMephs 67 points68 points  (0 children)

        I keep telling dudes to stop posting pics of them with fish and they get defensive

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          [–]xPrincessHalo 195 points196 points  (3 children)

          Right? It’s wild how low the bar can get and still be missed. Dating apps really are a special kind of chaos.

          [–]NymphGlimmer 69 points70 points  (1 child)

          Seriously! It’s wild how even the bare minimum gets missed. Dating apps feel like a bizarre social experiment where expectations are low and the results still manage to disappoint.

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            [–]DollMoody_ 42 points43 points  (0 children)

            exactly, the background checks alone would make HR cry.

            [–]sanityjanity 370 points371 points  (10 children)

            One of them has added his embezzlement as a "skill" on his resume.

            [–]IHaveNoEgrets 174 points175 points  (3 children)

            Embezzlement? "Extensive experience in specialized money management and routing."

            Armed robbery? "Well versed in negotiations and persuasive argumentation. Unique skill set in identifying security weaknesses in financial establishments."

            [–]pkinetics 41 points42 points  (2 children)

            The ChatGPT sanitization of skills

            [–]IHaveNoEgrets 107 points108 points  (0 children)

            Hey, now, I'm not ChatGPT! I, sir, am an artist, and bullshit is my medium!

            [–]raendrop 27 points28 points  (0 children)

            This creative reframing goes back to at least the '90s.

            [–]HerrDoktorLaser 76 points77 points  (0 children)

            AI probably just put it there when it saw his arrest record.

            [–]FriskyDoes 17 points18 points  (0 children)

            I had a nice giggle at this

            [–]RGQcats 11 points12 points  (3 children)

            This made me literally LOL.

            [–]sanityjanity 34 points35 points  (2 children)

            You know, it sounds silly, but just knowing I made another human's day just a tiny fraction better is helping me hang onto the world.

            [–]RGQcats 19 points20 points  (1 child)

            I know this feeling. Keep hanging on. Emotions are like ocean waves, they come and they go. Knowing that helps me. And deep breaths.

            [–]Mirenithil 6 points7 points  (0 children)

            I know this too, and thank you for posting these encouraging words for them. The fact that you wanted to help someone else hang on for another day speaks volumes about how excellent your compassion and character are.

            [–]CB4life 98 points99 points  (0 children)

            plus the threat of you interview someone and don't hire them, and have to worry about them violently attacking the interview panel.....

            [–]LearningIsTheBest 5 points6 points  (0 children)

            This implies they had jobs at some point.

            [–]vapormelt666 4 points5 points  (0 children)

            133 embezzlers  All i need is one forklift certified woman

            [–]DollMoody_ 1 point2 points  (0 children)

            exactly, it’s not just quantity, it’s the quality of what’s showing up that makes it a mess.

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              [–]hgwaz 250 points251 points  (3 children)

              "I'm hungry"

              "There's a bunch of moldy hotdogs on the sidewalk outside"

              [–]estragon26 110 points111 points  (1 child)

              I said the same thing the other day except I phrased it as "oh you're hungry, well there's plenty of dogshit" and got told I hate men because I obviously think they're dogshit 😂

              [–]foundinwonderland 96 points97 points  (0 children)

              Sounds like they should stop being so dogshit then 🙃

              [–]DateLikeADomme 17 points18 points  (0 children)

              I just choked.

              But it was on the sip of tea I was drinking when I read your comment and laughed.

              Instead of because a dude off Tinder is sure that is how to sex a lady.

              [–]Gun_Fucker2000 315 points316 points  (32 children)

              Yeah there’s that analogy.. Dating for men is like trying to find clean water in the dessert. And for women, it’s like trying to find clean water in a swamp.

              [–]Kandiru 157 points158 points  (1 child)

              To someone in a desert, a swamp where there is water literally everywhere sounds like paradise. But if they actually went there they might change their mind.

              [–]Fun-Pickle-9821 4 points5 points  (0 children)

              I will say, the water in the desert can very easily not be drinkable.

              [–]counters14 44 points45 points  (1 child)

              I've never heard that analogy that is great lmao

              [–]throwawaysunglasses- 89 points90 points  (25 children)

              I’ve heard this too, although I think the men who say it unironically are being a little whiny. Dating really is not that hard for straight men if you’re a decent, fun, intelligent guy who sees women as people. Like, so many single women are begging for normal men. Unfortunately, it is hard for men to meet that criteria so it’s women’s fault for being too picky.

              [–]rumande 66 points67 points  (13 children)

              All the normal men I know monkeybranch from one relationship to the next, or they've been married forever

              [–]badluckbrians 32 points33 points  (12 children)

              I've been married forever. But I think it's true across the board. Before my wife, the previous women I dated, in order:

              1. Filed a police report on me for stealing her iPod (yes it was that long ago). She left it her friend's car. No apologies for nearly getting me fired when the police showed up at my work.
              2. Begged me to move to China with her and work for her under a visa she'd control and live with her totally dependent. Couldn't figure out why I wouldn't drop out of college senior year to do this.
              3. Convinced the landlord of a house in which I rented a room that we were a long term couple, got him to rent her a room in my home, moved all her stuff in, then didn't pay rent, and made it my problem.
              4. Drank to excess. Drove drunk. Would slap and punch me while drunk. Would go off sleeping with other men while drunk.
              5. Was actually a pretty sweet person but just ghosted without an explanation.

              I was so happy when I met my wife and she was normal. We moved in together within a few months. And I proposed thereafter, never looked back.

              [–]rumande 40 points41 points  (10 children)

              I'm glad you and your wife have each other.

              Idk if I'm biased but I'm into both men and women, I know so many straight ladies who are absolute babes, talented, driven, financially independent and are chronically single. They are pretty much exclusively straight or else I'd have a GF by now. I don't know a single man who is comparably desirable who is single more than a few months. It doesnt seem even at all from where I'm standing.

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                [–]TheBunnyDemon 55 points56 points  (1 child)

                Yup, I've never had trouble dating or finding a girlfriend and I'm not exactly a peak physical specimen. When asked why I don't have trouble by guys that do I always just tell them I treat women like regular people and it just works out. You'll meet someone and get close and things progress. They never believe me, which is frustrating because they asked me so they already know the evidence speaks for itself.

                [–]_Ocean_Machine_ 25 points26 points  (0 children)

                I think another issue for men (and I say this as a man who used to have trouble even talking to women, never mind dating them) is that in the best case men treat women as though they're some sort of mysterious alien species, and at worst like vending machines where you put in favors and sex comes out (I speak here of "normal" men, I understand there are also abusive creeps out there). Either way, they forget that women are people just like them, and therefore most things that'll get people to like them will work with women because shockingly, women are people.

                Regarding myself, I realized the problem wasn't that I couldn't talk to women, but that I couldn't talk to anyone. So I joined a local rock band which got me out of the house, forced me to interact with strangers, and most importantly expanded my social circle which lead to me meeting my current partner.

                TLDR: I think most men could really benefit from meeting new people and expanding their horizons.

                [–]Bio_slayer 31 points32 points  (4 children)

                Well, you're missing one factor. A decent number of decent men like that tend to not go where the women are. If they work in a male dominated field and don't attend events outside male dominated nerd stuff it's pretty easy to never come into contact with any dating prospects in real life (and then they're stuck with online dating). You wouldn't see these men around for obvious reasons. Also, without being in an environment where you are able to get to know a woman first, it's really hard to get past the inital filtering stage and even have a conversation (which I don't blame women for due to the whole "swamp" side of this problem).

                These are disproportionately represented on the internet of course.

                If OP's story has a moral, it's to not be dismissive of others' struggles, since you may not fully understand them.

                [–]kiragami 23 points24 points  (3 children)

                This is where it's at for me. I've worked the night shift for the last decade or so generally, have nerdy hobbies, and don't really like going to bars alone. It's hard to actually meet women and of course I don't want to go around and do events just to meet women (and I'd assume they don't want to hang with dudes who are literally only there to meet women as well).

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                    [–]Sarsmi 65 points66 points  (4 children)

                    I've been saying for YEARS that women may get to go home with any guy they meet at a bar, but like...imagine you go to a bar and meet 100 people. And not one of them is someone you want to spend even 5 minutes talking to, much less fucking. That's what it is like for women.

                    [–]jetogill 57 points58 points  (2 children)

                    (a guy here full disclosure) couple years ago when I first downloaded tiktok and fired it up, one of the first people recommended to me was a woman comic, and I wish I could remember her name, but she started out saying she was a total slutz and she had decided to start getting to know men before she hopped on the sack with them and basically, her takeaway was, men will absolutely try to talk to out of sleeping with them. The way she described guys talking to her when she had basically already indicated an inclination to sleep with them was at the same time hilarious and disheartening.

                    [–]DollMoody_ 17 points18 points  (1 child)

                    yeah exactly, people love to ignore the part where most of those “options” aren’t actually options at all.

                    [–]_Ocean_Machine_ 14 points15 points  (0 children)

                    I used to think "surely it's not that bad" due to being fortunate enough to have male friends who've got their heads screwed on straight, and then I got a blue collar manufacturing job as was like "oh god . . . "

                    [–]SkorpioSound 27 points28 points  (0 children)

                    I'm a fairly average-looking bisexual man and I really do get to experience both "sides" of it. I think it's less about being a man or woman, and more about whether you're trying to match with men or women. Which is functionally the same thing when it comes to hetero dating, but I think bi/gay men wanting to match with other men probably experience similar things to straight women, and I think bi/lesbian women wanting to match with other women probably experience similar things to straight men.

                    Even matching with women can be rare at times, let alone trying to actually get a conversation going while she's inundated with messages. I'm told I'm a very good conversationalist, too, and I would say if I do get past the initial small talk and into an actual conversation then odds are decent it'll carry on for a while and be a good conversation. But modern online dating as a format really makes it difficult to get past the small talk (I miss the online dating of 10-15 years ago). I obviously don't blame individual women for it (or women as a whole), but the overall experience is pretty damn soul-destroying and lonely, and I can see how it leads to some men misplacing their blame and resenting women, or going full incel.

                    And with men, it's the complete opposite. I get so many matches/messages from men—honestly, despite me leaning more towards women, and women being more common than gay/bisexual men, I would say I receive more messages from men still. And men often make an effort to keep the conversation going even if I'm not that engaged (which is usually because their conversational skills suck, ha). I also get plenty of very sexual messages right off the bat, of course. It does often feel like I just have my pick of men, and that it's 'easy'—if what I'm looking for is just any attention or opportunity to fuck someone at all. But the vast majority of the men just aren't ones I want to talk to, let alone date or fuck—like you said, none of them meet the qualifications!

                    My female friends have told me I come across as having a good understanding of their experiences with online dating, so I figure my experience with men is probably pretty similar to theirs (although I'm well aware that I only experience a fraction of what women experience in terms of the sheer quantity). I do understand why many men think it must be better—straight women certainly don't experience a lot of the issues that men looking for women have with dating apps—but really it's just a different flavour of awful. Frankly, I wouldn't wish either "side" on anyone; online dating sucks whether you're trying to match with men or women, just for very different reasons. I actually think modern online dating causes a lot of issues in society, far beyond just dating itself.

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                      [–]=^..^=AgileMastodon0909 463 points464 points  (2 children)

                      As an HR manager, I would not have batted an eye had this happened in front of me in my office. You are all consenting adults engaging in thought provoking conversation.

                      [–]Neuroclipse 3 points4 points  (0 children)

                      One of the good ones! 😀

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                        [–]TangledUpPuppeteer 1091 points1092 points  (80 children)

                        It may be inappropriate, but I did it. My boss and I are friends, and he was talking to a younger guy at the office we shared with another company last year. Talking about how women don’t give men a chance and it’s creating an epidemic (both are happily married).

                        I told them both to get off the brocasts because if they actually saw what was out there, they would simply just cry. My standards were too high, they said.

                        I gave them my phone. I said “seriously, swipe right if you see someone worthy of dating an adult human woman. You can have as long as you need until you find one or the filters run out of potentials.

                        I even reset my filters to only be based on distance so they could stop with the “I bet your filters are the problem” nonsense. Only two filters: looking for man and distance, which they both agreed was more than fair. I even set it to accept a few miles outside my parameter just to see if that might change anything, and they were sure they wouldn’t need it. They’d find ONE in less than two minutes because women are so demanding.

                        20 mins later, they were still huddled over my phone. Not ONE right swipe. It wasn’t about matches, it was about finding a single person worth swiping right on.

                        They accused me of picking a terrible app. I told them that if they both worked for the next hour, I’d Let them do the same on a second app I had. They actually both worked! Same rules. ONE right swipe.

                        At the end of it, they agreed that men think they have it bad, but even other men think their profiles are bullshit. They then went off about how the fish pictures are baffling, wondering why more men don’t just wear full clothes, and bitching that after the 3rd mirror pic in the gym they couldn’t stand that image anymore. It wasn’t interesting and it was stupid. They were also super shocked that every profile looked so remarkably the same — that there were like five different pictures and everyone had them: fish, car/motorcycle, gym mirror, group with random people and no indication who the guy was in the profile, and some medium distance image that involved someone famous or a sign and definitely sunglasses that obscure half the face. They also found it funny that every person with a pet had one picture with said pet.

                        They probably went through about 100 profiles give-or-take, and between the two of them, they couldn’t find ONE guy to swipe right on. My personal opinion: it’s good for men women aren’t actually as picky as men!

                        So, although it’s not altogether appropriate, sometimes it’s worth it just to educate.

                        [–]one_bean_hahahaha 700 points701 points  (3 children)

                        Standards too high. LOL

                        "Maybe if she raised her standards, she wouldn't keep ending up with assholes." Also them.

                        [–]TangledUpPuppeteer 252 points253 points  (1 child)

                        Actually, no. Not those two. They joked that I should have had higher standards after I got divorced. They said “that’s what happens when you have such low standards. You end up divorced.” Honestly, my standards were perfect and I met someone who matched them and we were together 20 years. They both actually believe women should have real standards.

                        They realized that even if your standards are in hell, these profiles show the men couldn’t reach it with a 50 ft ladder and a trampoline.

                        [–]sandtrooper73 6 points7 points  (0 children)

                        ...aaaand, now I'm picturing a man using a 50 ft ladder and trampoline in combination, and answering the question why women live longer. 😂

                        I'm a man, and I'm sorry for your pain, ladies. If I had the power to snap my fingers and make other men NOT moronic assholes, I would, but alas, I do not.

                        [–]rumande 43 points44 points  (0 children)

                        Most guys complaining about women's standards probably don't believe in DEI for the workplace. They're apples and oranges really but it's funny how these guys are pro-DEI if it applies to their dick

                        [–]czyzczyz 90 points91 points  (12 children)

                        Is this in a locale that is especially renowned for its fishing? I'm also baffled. I don't know why anyone would bother as they could never measure up to Henry Winkler's fish photos.

                        [–]Kuddkungen 76 points77 points  (4 children)

                        Getting a good catch when fishing is one of the few occasions where men will pose for a picture with a genuine smile. So when they need to select some photos for their bios, the happy fishing pics are often some of the best photos of them.

                        [–]czyzczyz 60 points61 points  (2 children)

                        Workshopping a meme: Men would rather hold a fish and smile than go to therapy.

                        Actually, fish therapy would probably work pretty well. It's relaxing out there on the water.

                        Glad I'm not on the apps anymore, but I'm happy to learn that fish photos are required. To keep the number of photos low I'd probably recommend people take "holding a fish in the gym" photos.

                        [–]unexpectedhalfrican 13 points14 points  (1 child)

                        See now that would actually elicit a response for me because honey what are you doing in the gym with that fish? I would have questions and I'd need them answered. Unfortunately that would require someone to have a personality and a sense of humor to come up with something like that.

                        [–]alvenestthol 8 points9 points  (0 children)

                        We should gather like 10 common patterns in male dating app profiles

                        And then do something like A. L. Schafer's "Thou Shalt Not" poster (the one against the Hays Code) that demonstrates all 10 patterns in the same picture

                        [–]BagelTrollop 8 points9 points  (0 children)

                        I’ve been saying exactly this for years. It’s the only time guys take photos of each other

                        [–]lala2004[🍰] 15 points16 points  (0 children)

                        The photo where the fish seems to have escaped 😂

                        [–]kiwispouse 12 points13 points  (0 children)

                        Fish: that's 20 photos. can we go home now?

                        Henry looks so happy, it's hard to fault him.

                        [–]BagLady57 14 points15 points  (0 children)

                        This is gold.

                        [–]corneryeller 6 points7 points  (0 children)

                        This is so delightful

                        [–]stillpacing 6 points7 points  (0 children)

                        Thank you for sharing that. It made me smile.

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                          [–]unqualified_redditor 112 points113 points  (29 children)

                          What I don't understand is that wouldn't this make it super easy to stand out as a slightly less then boring normal guy and get tons of matches?

                          [–]Baxtab13 160 points161 points  (12 children)

                          It would seem that way. But 100% these apps are going out of their way to not actually put you with a decent match, especially when using a free plan so they can get you to cough up more more dough.

                          I've tried using a few apps as a man (Bumble, Hinge, and Boo). I have four criteria that are must haves when going through potential matches.

                          1. Is woman.

                          2. Lives in a reasonable driving distance.

                          3. Liberal

                          4. Childfree.

                          Thankfully the apps will have the decency to only present women based on my choices, but if I'm on a free plan then the list of potential matches ends up being exclusively either conservative-christian women who want kids, or are already moms. I'm honestly curious if I set my profile the opposite way, if I'd all of a sudden start seeing people who fit my real preferences.

                          Sometimes I've tried the premium plan, and all of a sudden I'm seeing far more people I see compatibility with. But god the premium plans are so expensive, and I never got mutual matches anyway, so I've mostly given up on those.

                          [–]TangledUpPuppeteer 42 points43 points  (7 children)

                          Hi! My four criteria: 1. Is man. 2. Lives a reasonable driving distance. 3. Liberal 4. Is childfree.

                          How is Reddit better at this than a dating app?

                          [–]cheese_is_available 17 points18 points  (6 children)

                          The reasonable driving distance is probably not met here.

                          [–]eternal-eccentric 14 points15 points  (5 children)

                          Or we are witnessing a love story in the making! (let's just have some hope)

                          [–]Sedixodap 57 points58 points  (2 children)

                          You would think. But having seen a couple of my (genuinely dateable) guy friends’ profiles they don’t even know where to start. 

                          For example: my buddy’s first photo was the stereotypical fish photo. In this photo he was wearing baggy rain gear, sunglasses and a toque so you had no idea what he looked like. The worst part? He doesn’t like fishing. So the only women who did swipe right based on that photo would wind up disappointed.

                          He’s managed to find an awesome wife now, but unsurprisingly he met her at work. 

                          [–]unqualified_redditor 18 points19 points  (0 children)

                          Haha that is a really funny example. I haven't used dating apps since early Tinder so I have no real perspective on this other then that I think the whole concept of swiping too depressing to participate. I would rather just do what I do and meet people naturally through life experience.

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                            [–]TheyHungre 45 points46 points  (2 children)

                            Whilst I didn't get a large volume of messages this way, I did get some quality ones (and an eventual spouse).

                            After hearing their descriptions of the dating process, I came to the conclusion that the bar is buried so deeply that I didn't clear it so much as unknowingly amble over it. 10/10, would totally recommend guys take a shower before taking a profile pic and then write about themselves and how they live their life in their profiles.

                            [–]DiElizabeth 18 points19 points  (1 child)

                            "Unknowingly ambling over it" is exactly how I would describe the few decent matches I had back in my single days. It's all we want, really. 😭

                            [–]GringoinCDMX 17 points18 points  (5 children)

                            When I was single (4 years ago now) I used the apps a lot and lived in 2 major cities. No issue finding a date every single night if I wanted.

                            You're not gonna have that sort of luck in the suburbs or a smaller city. I was in nyc and then Mexico City. Matches for days being a decent dude who was in shape and put 10min of effort into my profile.

                            [–]DiElizabeth 13 points14 points  (4 children)

                            $10 says you also said more than "hi" and asked an actual question or two. That's the real gold star material.

                            [–]GringoinCDMX 12 points13 points  (3 children)

                            Yeah. My gf and I met on bumble about 4 years ago. We talked a few days in the app, exchanged numbers talked for few weeks (middle of the pandemic) and went on a hike. Been together since.

                            Even when I was single I'd want to have a nice conversation since that kinda is the whole point. I was really successful on the apps back in the day. I don't doubt it's worse now but most guys put in negative effort. And the one that do put in effort tend to do it all wrong.

                            [–]TangledUpPuppeteer 16 points17 points  (2 children)

                            You have no idea how spot on you are!

                            There is a glaring red flag in some profiles. Any man who writes “tired from carrying all of the conversations on here” is a guaranteed monosyllabic conversationalist.

                            “Hi, it’s nice to meet you. How are you?”

                            “Good.”

                            “Have plans for this weekend?”

                            “No.”

                            “What are you looking for?”

                            “Gf.”

                            “Are you busy or something?”

                            “No.”

                            “Do you eventually communicate?”

                            “Yes.”

                            “Ok. Well, I don’t want to disturb you, so when you have more time to talk, message me.”

                            “Why?”

                            I can’t even begin to tell you how much NO that feels like. It’s like slogging through chest-deep mud. There is negative positive feelings off of that. It’s even worse when they stick to four letters or less. As if we all have time to sit and figure out what the newest acronym is. I had no idea what “wyd” meant until a monosyllabic guy messaged it to me. I spent far too long trying to figure out what it could be as a typo before I put it into google and thought “oh. Well, duh!” But, by that point I was no longer interested. It was like 10 exchanges with four letters or less. No thanks. If I wanted to do puzzles I would do them. I don’t want to work that hard for a text exchange that’s rushing nowhere fast.

                            [–]TangledUpPuppeteer 8 points9 points  (0 children)

                            As a woman, those are the ones I swipe on, depending on what constitutes “normal” To the person. Someone who thinks it’s “normal” to say “wants to take care of the homestead and raise a ton of kids” ain’t normal in my opinion.

                            According to them, the one man that was “normal” they couldn’t swipe on. Apparently he was in travel mode and was within my distance, but normally lived overseas from us. They knew I wasn’t interested in that. And the agreement was to go until there was one valid swipe right that might be someone I was interested in.

                            But yes, all of the luck I’ve had with the apps (which isn’t much but a little), has been the boring normal profiles without fish and workout pics. My, I have no idea how I survived 😂

                            [–]They/ThemSDRPGLVR 6 points7 points  (0 children)

                            It does, actually. Last time I was in the apps, it was before I came out as agender and was just a pansexual man, looking to finally start actually dating men after being in a long relationship with a woman.

                            Every. Single. Man. Is flags. The most promising one got weird and aggressive about not using condoms before we ever met.

                            Fortunately, I found it pretty easy to match with cool women and had a very fun time until I got scooped off. And I'm boring. I'm a shitty office drone who's a little fat and very average looking. I like movies and video games. I just wasn't a fucking problem and I sailed right over the underground bar.

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                                [–]Background-Roof-112 1212 points1213 points  (8 children)

                                This post may have temporarily restored my will to live. Queen!

                                [–]xPrincessHalo 175 points176 points  (5 children)

                                Yeah honestly this was iconic. You didn’t just prove your point, you demonstrated it in real time. Sometimes a little chaos is the only way people actually get it.

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                                  [–]CandyCoatedDinosaurs 416 points417 points  (13 children)

                                  I love the bad tinder conversation songs Lewky makes. I showed them to my (male) partner and we spent the evening scrolling through pretty much his entire catalog on Instagram. My partner laughed just as loud as I did, but the embarrassment he felt on behalf of his gender was really obvious. He finally asked rhetorically, "What is wrong with men?", so I searched until I found a really weird woman-initiated conversation (like... one of two) and told him, "It's not only men, it's just mostly men." I don't think it made him feel any better.

                                  I did meet my partner on Tinder, though. Diamond in the rough.

                                  [–]SnipesCC 185 points186 points  (6 children)

                                  Is that where the song with the guy asking if a single child had 2 baby daddies?

                                  [–]ThreadLaced 81 points82 points  (0 children)

                                  that's the one, and the rest of them are even wilder, if you can imagine!

                                  [–]Monotreme_monorail 72 points73 points  (0 children)

                                  🎶 I have one daughter 🎶

                                  Makes me laugh every time!

                                  [–]sanityjanity 31 points32 points  (0 children)

                                  Ellipses.  I don't understand.

                                  [–]Kathy578 4 points5 points  (0 children)

                                  🪕🎶🎵 I never make up train facts 🎶🎵🪕

                                  • Lewky Songs

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                                    [–]cool. coolcoolcool.So_Motarded 80 points81 points  (3 children)

                                    Say "Potato", Elizabeth!

                                    [–]sanityjanity 26 points27 points  (1 child)

                                    This is now an in joke in our house.

                                    If an AI bot calls me.  I tell it to say, "potato".  They usually just hang up.

                                    [–]cool. coolcoolcool.So_Motarded 7 points8 points  (0 children)

                                    Even better if you can sing it!

                                    [–]xcanyoudiggitx 13 points14 points  (0 children)

                                    I had not seen this before and adding it to my lexicon now tyvm

                                    [–]Overall-Armadillo683 13 points14 points  (0 children)

                                    I love Lewky. So hilarious. Brilliantly captures our struggles with OLD.

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                                      [–]steelcryo 688 points689 points  (14 children)

                                      Issue is, they're exactly the kind of men that just swipe on woman coz woman pretty. So they think because they think that, loads of other guys must think that too. Therefore, any attractive woman must be getting loads of matches on Tinder.

                                      That's where their thinking stops.

                                      Yes, women can get matches easier than men on Tinder, but the quality of those matches are atrocious. THAT'S why they can get more matches, because so many men will swipe as soon as they see a woman they want to fuck. Genuine connection? Shared interests? Common life goals? Not even thought about once.

                                      I've had male friends before, complaining about how unfair Tinder is as a guy, while their profiles are grim. Alternately, I've seen female friends profiles, and they always have so much more effort put into them. I recently had a guy friend tell me "they key to Tinder is just swipe yes on everyone and sort it out later".

                                      Dating apps are vastly different experiences depending on which side you're on.

                                      [–]mypurplehat 116 points117 points  (2 children)

                                      When I tried them I was surprised how little effort the men put into making their profiles.

                                      They would have one to three pictures (when you could usually have five at least) sometimes without even one clear shot of their face, and then their interests would be beer, wine, marijuana, and video games! (hunting and fishing were also pretty common because I live in a very rural area. Those are dealbreakers for me as a vegan but like, at least that is an actual interest!)

                                      Then their profiles would be devoid of any other personal information. Instead of describing themselves or what they’re looking for it would just say something like “Anything you want to know, just ask.” Excuse me, sir, but what about you do you think is intriguing? I know nothing about you but you think I am already dying to know more? The place to answer the basic get-to-know you questions is right here, in your profile! Why would I want to do the work to drag it out of YOU instead of any of the hundred other boring bozos trying to match with me?

                                      [–]ChopsticksImmortal 35 points36 points  (0 children)

                                      In the brief months where i dated and decided i didnt care that much, the universal experience with everyone i matched and texted with or met with is that if i dont ask questions they simply stop talking. And then they dont ask questions about me.

                                      Conversations are two-way, and some people dont even want to put in that much effort.

                                      [–]rumande 18 points19 points  (0 children)

                                      Most profiles have some variant on "not here to play games"

                                      Just makes me think those guys are fucked in the head and they will create endless drama.

                                      One profile like that belonged to a man I ended up working for, I ended up quitting after day 4 because he had nothing to say that wasnt sexist or disgusting

                                      [–]Isolated_Hippo 23 points24 points  (1 child)

                                      Yes, women can get matches easier than men on Tinder, but the quality of those matches are atrocious.

                                      Yup. It sucks for everybody. Men it sucks because its trying to find a needle in a haystack. Women it sucks because you can find more needles than hay. Its just the needles are all rusted and probably have an STD.

                                      [–]Yuzumi 64 points65 points  (4 children)

                                      I haven't spent too much time on dating apps for a few reasons, but my experience being trans is also unique.

                                      Before realizing when I was seeking for women I apparently did something cis men don't do: read profiles. Attraction is important, but I wanted someone I had stuff in common with.

                                      I understand why straight women don't put much if anything in their profiles since men don't read, but it was frustrating. I've also heard from straight and bi trans women that they put the fact they are trans at the top of their bio and men will surprise Pikachu when they bring it up in messaging.

                                      Also, looking back it is pretty obvious I wasn't what straight women were looking for anyway.

                                      A few months after starting transition I decided to try again and got way more matches and had better conversations, though they didn't go beyond that. And queer dating on the apps is it's own can of worms, like as far as seeking as a lesbian there are a lot of obviously cishet men on there...

                                      [–]cantreasonwithstupid 12 points13 points  (1 child)

                                      You reading the profile puts you miles in front of anyone on the apps. I had a long slightly silly random one just to see if people would notice any details in it - it was a great filter tbh.

                                      [–]unexpectedhalfrican 9 points10 points  (0 children)

                                      I did this too. I put my greatest fear as waking up with my kidneys stolen or something like that, and then later down the profile, it asked what I was looking for and I said something like, "someone down to earth, with similar values, who won't steal my kidneys." My current partner told me she thought there was a non-zero chance that I'd had a kidney stolen and she wanted to know if it was true, and that was part of the reason she matched with me lol

                                      [–]Tictacs_and_strategy 13 points14 points  (0 children)

                                      I think the mindset for many men is that if they put anything definitive in their profiles, they'll be limiting their potential matches. And that's true, in a way. If he says he smokes, he'll deter any women who don't want to be with a smoker. But like... those women were never actually in his dating pool anyway. Sure, they might match, might even go on a date. But the woman will realize he smokes.

                                      Ironically, trying avoid dealbreakers in their profile just makes men bland and anonymous.

                                      Alternatively, they just don't think about it at all. Many of the other men I've talked to about dating apps don't seem to realize that their profile is competing for attention with zillions of other profiles.

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                                        [–]IThinkImDumb 29 points30 points  (1 child)

                                        I really don't like dating apps. After a break-up, my friend encouraged me to go on one, and while we were talking, we looked though some people. My friend eventually said, "if you want to meet people you actually have to swipe (whatever direction is a yes).

                                        It wasn't fun. Also, next day I saw that 1300 people swiped on me. Yuck. No thanks

                                        [–]cantreasonwithstupid 15 points16 points  (0 children)

                                        Yep - great thanks for the attention buuuuut 1300 swipes makes me feel like something on special at the dollar store.

                                        [–]armoredkitten22 1 point2 points  (0 children)

                                        It's been a few years since I've been on the dating apps, but I can attest that women's profiles are also very often awful. A lot of "oh, okay, so apparently I'm supposed to interpret her personality based on these five emojis" level of insight. Or "I like to travel and have fun with friends" -- yeah, you and like literally everyone else on the planet. Certainly you and the last fifteen profiles I've read.

                                        Dating apps suck for everyone. Though I'll readily admit, it's not the same amount or kind of sucky. For men it's sucky and depressing, for women it's downright miserable and dangerous.

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                                          [–]baddieinprogress 54 points55 points  (1 child)

                                          That doesn't even include the married cheaters. Most of the time when a guy messages me and they look even half way decent or talk to me like a human, 9/10 times they're already married/partnered cheating/lying.

                                          [–]Enough-Atmosphere267 17 points18 points  (0 children)

                                          Which just adds a spice of unneeded trauma for no reason other than a guy wanted his junk touched and ego stroked. It’s so disgusting for this be such a common experience, disrespectful to the concept of love and the vulnerability of people who are genuinely looking to create healthy relationships. Just disappointing

                                          [–]Picard2331 232 points233 points  (10 children)

                                          Definitely inappropriate, but also hilarious. It's almost a comedy scene if it wasn't so painfully real lol.

                                          [–]Basically Dorothy Zbornakbooyahkaka 155 points156 points  (9 children)

                                          I died thinking about OP showing their manager that message. 😂 Very deserved!

                                          Also, OP shouldn't think if it was inappropriate to share their experience since their two coworkers certainly didn't think it was inappropriate to discuss their experiences in the office!

                                          [–]justeandj 79 points80 points  (8 children)

                                          THANK YOUUU! I was feeling crazy that I hadn't seen this point made yet. They literally started it! Not inappropriate to use their conversation as a learning opportunity. I see it as bold and brave--two things I'd love more of us women to be!

                                          [–]CaptainLollygag 35 points36 points  (0 children)

                                          You aren't crazy. I, too, was wondering why it would be inappropriate for OP but totally fine for her male coworkers.

                                          Waaaait... Hear me out. This is a long shot, buuuut could it be that their maleness means they get away with more stuff than women? And that women are "being inappropriate" when they do the very same things?

                                          Noooo, that's absurd, that never happens. I must be on my period. 😂

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                                            [–]AllyLB 32 points33 points  (0 children)

                                            It’s “easy” to date online if you literally say yes to every single person, don’t have standards and don’t care if you are raped, killed, trafficked or even just bored out of your mind. It’s not actually easy for anyone if you really want to date someone that you could actually build a relationship with.

                                            [–]derpferd 65 points66 points  (0 children)

                                            Sometimes you need to educate these motherfuckers

                                            [–]Props_angel 159 points160 points  (6 children)

                                            Brilliantly done! When I was on the dating scene, I totally shared the DMs that I was receiving with my friends as they were so confused as to why I was still single. They stopped asking that question pretty damn quick.

                                            [–]CaptainLollygag 38 points39 points  (5 children)

                                            I hope you met your man or woman or decided to be happily by yourself. I cannot even with what I read of the struggle nowadays.

                                            In 2000 or 2001 I tried a little online dating. This was back when it was a novel idea and just on websites, no apps. I wrote as many descriptors as possible both to be upfront with who I am and to find someone with shared interests. And I learned that if you say you are bisexual, Pagan, and goth, that means that you're just looking for sex with men wearing cowboy hats. All of the men wearing cowboy hats. I'd like to thank the gods and fate and pure blind luck for meeting Husband (in person) shortly after that. He doesn't own a single cowboy hat, if you were wondering.

                                            [–]Props_angel 22 points23 points  (4 children)

                                            Single still but comfortably so as it seems that I attract all the wrong men. That has been made still very self-evidently true in the course of the last 6 months so it is what it is.

                                            I had "jovial misanthrope" on my dating profile ages ago. Was an "interesting" experience, I'll say that. My last profile photo was me wearing Mario sunglasses with a plastic moustache. That's when I actually had actually nice DMs from men who thought it was hilarious.

                                            [–]CaptainLollygag 9 points10 points  (1 child)

                                            I actually love "jovial misanthrope" and your wearing those sunglasses! Hahaha!

                                            [–]AntonioS3 3 points4 points  (1 child)

                                            As a Super Mario fan, I think it's also hilarious and really nice. I vibe well with anybody in general who's a Mario fan.

                                            But I'm sorry to hear you had a negative time with the dating scene. I wish there was anything I could do to help. I wish you luck, whether it be finally meeting your person or deciding to be happily single.

                                            [–]Accurate_Stuff9937 21 points22 points  (3 children)

                                            I did this with my dad. I handed him my phone and said okay dad pick your daughter out a suitable new boyfriend to bring to Christmas dinner. 5 minutes later he was busting up laughing and making fake puking noises at all the gross pictures. I believe his exact words were Oh My God!

                                            My dad however is having an amazing time on the apps. Hes a white successful 75 year old man who is fit, has blue eyes and blonde hair. Grannies are literally throwing themselves at him and he keeps 3 or 4 on rotation and swaps them out every month or so. 🙄

                                            [–][deleted] 4 points5 points  (1 child)

                                            He's definitely a catch in that market. I worked in elder care fields and 70+ men can pull honies like nobody's business. There are like 20 women for every man in that age bracket it feels like. All these guys complaining they can't get any need to switch to the long game. Keep relatively healthy and make it to that age and you'll get all the women you can handle!

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                                              [–]Monarc73 17 points18 points  (0 children)

                                              It's the whole swamp Vs desert problem, I suppose.

                                              [–]mrswitters03 55 points56 points  (0 children)

                                              I've never been much of a dating app user and for a long time, I was genuinely surprised by some of the "rumors" out there about what would be said or sent to women on them. But I've heard enough stories from GFs and female friends over the last several years that I finally had to accept it wasn't just the internet talking and people really do this shit, even when it sounds ridiculous. Honestly mind blowing that anyone would say or do any of this shit and think that is supposed to work!

                                              Maybe it wasn't "appropriate," but you what you did was eye opening for those guys, and hopefully you taught them an important lesson. And hopefully it's one they share with their buddies!

                                              [–]ididntunderstandyou 52 points53 points  (2 children)

                                              Men really need to learn to make a decent dating profile.

                                              Why would I swipe right on you when all you have are 2 blurry pics of yourself where I mostly see the bottom of your chin in extreme close up and a third pic of a tree, and your bio only says “don’t be a bitch” ?

                                              [–]Own_Sandwich6610 19 points20 points  (0 children)

                                              Or all the bio says is “just ask”. Lol, sir, ain’t nobody got time fo dat.

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                                                [–]notyourstranger 13 points14 points  (0 children)

                                                Well done!

                                                [–]wackyvorlon 11 points12 points  (0 children)

                                                I think it was an important lesson.

                                                [–]OlasNah 10 points11 points  (0 children)

                                                Many years ago during a discussion in an online chat on AOL a woman asked some of the guys there to change their bio and profile to that of a woman to see what it was like for women even back then… so we did, and the sheer number of guys trying to get a hookup was amazing

                                                [–]Raiquo 10 points11 points  (0 children)

                                                Should I let my manager swipe on tinder for me? 

                                                Oh honey, if "no" was the argument you were trying to make here you failed terribly. Not only do I think you should do it again (with updates) I think maybe more of us should traumatize the sexists in our lives by forcing them to try (and fail) to match us someone on Tinder.

                                                Worst case scenario, they eventually find you a date and you had do do none of the wading through sewage for it. 👌💯🫡

                                                [–]RGQcats 6 points7 points  (1 child)

                                                This makes me think of the saying about Alaska because of the gender disparity there. The odds are good, but the goods are odd. With dating apps, the goods are also disgusting.

                                                [–]CaIIous 8 points9 points  (0 children)

                                                HAHAHAHAHAHA! They were humbled and quickly, nice work.

                                                I overheard a similar conversation between male coworkers years and years ago. The question I posed to them was "are you really complaining about men being oppressed when they're 100% of US presidents, 70% of Congress, and 70% of CEOs??? please get a grip." Their response was "yeah but like... dating is hard" 🙄🙄🙄

                                                [–]skeeezoid 6 points7 points  (0 children)

                                                From the title I was prepared for this being a tired dull post but this was excellent work from all involved. Well, maybe not clean bio guy. Anyway, beautiful stuff.

                                                [–]La-matya-vin 6 points7 points  (0 children)

                                                This is the best thing I’ve read all day

                                                [–]Verdivc 6 points7 points  (0 children)

                                                Someone really should inform men that when they send a d**k pic that women show it to their friends and laugh.

                                                [–]Whoreson_Welles 26 points27 points  (0 children)

                                                bold move, and what a teaching moment!!

                                                [–]confused_Pantalones 23 points24 points  (3 children)

                                                u/burbnbougie an example of how men have no idea what a woman is going through. Props to the OP for standing up and showing what women have to go through.

                                                [–]cool. coolcoolcool.BurbNBougie 18 points19 points  (2 children)

                                                Tomorrow i shall do a Make these dudes LONELIER post. Thanks for the tag

                                                [–]welsherabbit 5 points6 points  (3 children)

                                                I never realized it so was tough for straight women. I guess I should be happy that i’m a dude into dudes and meeting hot nice guys on grindr is so easy.

                                                [–]LegalizeDiamorphine 14 points15 points  (0 children)

                                                I dunno, I get stalked on most gay apps. And people treat me like an object rather than a human being. Absolutely everyone is "horny". I have met some lasting people on there, but it never ceases to amaze me how vapid, shallow & empty guys can be. Sure it's easy to get laid, but if you dare have any other emotion other than "horny", nobody cares. I think it's a huge problem in the gay community & not enough people wanna talk about it. Not to mention the rampant meth addiction that has taken over so many guys.

                                                [–]PerpetuallyConfused_ 4 points5 points  (1 child)

                                                I've heard Grindr is super superficial and it's hard finding a long term relationship.

                                                [–]youcancallmebryn 5 points6 points  (0 children)

                                                this just felt satisfying to read.

                                                Like I just ate the best bowl of soup with the freshest bread to dip in it satisfied.

                                                [–]Halp. Am stuck on reddit.TwoNatTens 4 points5 points  (0 children)

                                                Oohhh this would fit so well on r/traumatizethemback

                                                [–]ninaandamonkey 5 points6 points  (0 children)

                                                I went on a date with a 'nice guy' who was basically complaining that women wanting boundaries and safety was annoying. I said must be nice to not have to care dude. 

                                                [–]kenj0418 6 points7 points  (1 child)

                                                I've heard someone describe it with the phrase "the odds are good, but the goods are odd"

                                                [–]TroutTroutBass 5 points6 points  (0 children)

                                                Oh, I absolutely think you should let your manager swipe in Tinder for you. Sounds like it was an educational and entertaining afternoon! Good for you for challenging their beliefs in such a productive way.

                                                [–]eddiekoski 3 points4 points  (0 children)

                                                This is the flower girl level response. We'll done 👏

                                                [–]silmaril94 5 points6 points  (0 children)

                                                EPIC 👏🙌

                                                [–]retrospct 5 points6 points  (0 children)

                                                *slow clap…. into standing ovation 👏

                                                [–]Vera_Telco 4 points5 points  (0 children)

                                                You...are...Brilliant. I only wish you could have recorded everything and made a vid!

                                                [–]BongyBong 3 points4 points  (0 children)

                                                I'll never understand how people do not view dating sites like they are going on an interview. So many men have horrible profiles, some don't even have a photo of their face, but I'll like the profile they wrote out and then when I match with them I go through this awkward phase of kind greetings and a few sentences of convo before they send me a pic (I have since quickly learned to stop matching with these profiles), then you realize you're not attracted to them and have to tell them so, or they confess that they are cheating, to which my favorite thing to then do is get their photo and suddenly say "omg you look like my dad!!" And they go "uh is that a bad thing?" And I say "yeah. Not into dating my father" and then they get all upset lol. If you aren't going to post your photo bc of "work" then this is the game you get to play. It's like a form of catfishing and they are aware of this, yet they get butthurt when this tactic doesn't work.

                                                I've even tried to be overly polite to men on these sites because I know about the ghosting they deal with so if I'm not feeling it I will let them kindly know and leave the chat. One time a guy did not like this and berated me with paragraphs all about "you women" and "you wont give a guy a chance" kind of talk. All that did was show me that I dodged a huge bullet! Women are demanding to be treated a certain way and men still don't seem to get it. Stay away from the podcast bro manosphere and start using your brain to rely on facts and not feelings.

                                                [–]KrikosTheWise 4 points5 points  (0 children)

                                                Well at least it sounds like they were receptive to evidence. I'm just happy I met my wife doing random stuff and skipped the whole online dating thing.

                                                [–]THE_Lena 8 points9 points  (0 children)

                                                “Men’s worst fear about dating is getting laughed at. Women’s worst fear is being killed.”

                                                It is not the same. And this is why we all chose the bear.

                                                [–]gekaman 23 points24 points  (0 children)

                                                Accepting the premise of “loneliness epidemic” is a way to blame women for being single rather than looking internally to see oneself deeper in a meaningful way. There are plenty of men who aren’t lonely and fill their time with hobbies, friends, and vacations. Why are women supposed to entertain the lonely men?

                                                The US population preferred to vote for a convicted rapist and fraudster rather than a woman, let that sink in.

                                                [–]JnCsmom 66 points67 points  (1 child)

                                                Applause!!! Your owned them! Mike drop!!

                                                [–]Cardsfan1[🍰] 6 points7 points  (1 child)

                                                It is wild to me than anyone thinks the other Dec has it easy. Unless you are wealthy and/or gorgeous, the world is a dumpster fire, and dating apps are about the worst.

                                                There are successes, don’t get me wrong. I met my wife on one several years ago, but when we matched she was almost to the point of deleting it (again), and I got on portly for entertainment purposes thinking a date was a long shot, and a relationship was simply not gonna happen.

                                                [–]13beach3s 3 points4 points  (0 children)

                                                Incredibly inappropriate?? THIS WAS FUCKING BADASS. WOW

                                                [–]Normal-Ad-9852 4 points5 points  (0 children)

                                                you’re an activist 😔✊thank you for your service

                                                [–]SmugShinoaSavesLives 3 points4 points  (0 children)

                                                Oh my god this is so great. They both learned a lesson and you let off some steam. Incredible.

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