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[–]maryfamilyresearch 4939 points4940 points  (119 children)

1 - NO!

2 - YES!

3 - Bc they are a dumbass / religious fanatic who believe that "marriage is sacred" is more important than your health and happiness

4 - Be safe. Abusers get the most dangerous when their prey tries to escape the prison. Get all your ducks in a row and leave without alerting him to your plans.

[–]Muellercleez 1080 points1081 points  (34 children)

All of these things. Especially point 4. If you decide you're leaving him, get a brother or trusted male to escort you away

[–]Foxconfessor01 604 points605 points  (2 children)

And do not tell a single person with ties to that church.

[–]hexagon_heist 77 points78 points  (1 child)

Truly. That church wants to protect HIM, not you OP. Don’t give them a chance to prove that wrong - get out, carefully, secretly, and then only go to licensed therapists in future.

[–]skjeflo 41 points42 points  (2 children)

When you are ready to DTMFA (and you should), an even better move would be to call the non-emergency line for local law enforcement and request a civil standby, to protect everyone.

[–]hoser1553 14 points15 points  (0 children)

Yep. In some jurisdictions this is known as a "keeping the peace" call as well. Either way, the dispatcher will know what is needed.

[–]benjjii3 117 points118 points  (9 children)

Not the preacher!

[–]Muellercleez 380 points381 points  (8 children)

I said "trusted" male. Preacher doesn't qualify by a longshot.

[–]Asplenium_viride 63 points64 points  (3 children)

Regarding violence, proper adults shouldn't "lose control", especially towards their loved ones. This pastor doesn't have your best interest in mind, he just wants you to feel shame and guilt in order for you to keep quiet. No scandal in his congregation and another soul to Shepard.

[–]watermelonfling 36 points37 points  (0 children)

I always find it strange when grown men “lose control” in romantic relationships, but never with their male friends or colleagues. What happens when OPs children play with his toys, will he hit them too?

[–]Shadowlady 31 points32 points  (0 children)

I expected it to say he lost control and pushed her to get to his toys. I was ready for reading he slapped her. Who the hell loses control and starts scratching and biting someone? That man is a monster and he absolutely hates her.

[–]Muellercleez 7 points8 points  (0 children)

💯

[–]ozymandais13 30 points31 points  (3 children)

This a preacher isn't a therapist.

Maybe the preacher meant to lile parry him and counter "reflect"

[–]albinosquirel 84 points85 points  (2 children)

The preacher is excusing domestic violence

He's the worst

[–]ozymandais13 21 points22 points  (1 child)

I forgot the/ s but that's the thing with church counseling they always come at it with save the ship even when it's toxic

[–]albinosquirel 8 points9 points  (0 children)

Oh yeah I was agreeing with you

[–]Eli_1988 549 points550 points  (39 children)

To expand on point 3, the biggest point in their religion is forgiveness and turning the other cheek, then those who perform the abuse "seek forgiveness" and are praised for being so humble and righteous.

Then its "how can you not forgive them, this is what Jesus wants" and suddenly you are a problem and your abuser is being defended and you are being lambasted.

There's marketability in a redemption story.

At least this has been my experience in apostolic churches

[–]Rakifiki 294 points295 points  (4 children)

It's also that the religion is patriarchal. I'm sure female abusers might also be protected, but I swear everytime I hear of a pastor counseling someone to stay it's always the battered wife.

Hell, a friend of mine left her husband after he hit her and her parents told her "once in three years isn't bad", and picked her husband over her and, last I heard, were still trying to get her to 'repent' from leaving her marriage and divorcing him and reconcile.

[–]phire 53 points54 points  (2 children)

For them, a battered wife is well within the realm of "normal", so they don't see anything wrong about it. But a battered husband is far enough outside of their accepted normal for them to accept the marriage is beyond saving.

However, that's only if the husband is obviously the victim of abuse.
I could easily see an abusive wife using the church leadership as a tool to keep her husband under her thumb. So you won't hear about the "battered husband", it's just your typical "troubled marriage" with undisclosed reasons.

I could also see the church overlooking some pretty blatant signs of abuse as long as the husband never admitted to it.

[–]Rakifiki 6 points7 points  (1 child)

Oh yeah I could definitely see that - especially a more covert abuser. But there are bible verses about you know, a nagging wife etc and I have seen women coming to church leadership for help with abuse and getting it turned around on them like "well are you nagging, why aren't you being obedient, turning the other cheek, a quiet answer turns away wrath" etc.

[–]GngrbredGentrifktion 19 points20 points  (0 children)

The irony in this story is that if that pastor was worth his salt, in addition to siding with the victim, he would have pointed out that the husband's behavior is flat out idolatry, in addition to a mental health disorder. But alas, such common sense and decency is absent!

[–]Helpful_Hour1984 76 points77 points  (0 children)

the biggest point in their religion is forgiveness

It doesn't apply to women's mistakes, though. Real or imagined. Women must always be punished before they can be "forgiven".

[–]TAOJeff 36 points37 points  (1 child)

Yeah, but also the submission of a wife to her husband is pretty high on the church's "push this idea" list.

[–]MaidMirawyn[🍰] 11 points12 points  (0 children)

Many fundamentalist and more conservative evangelical (Fundie light) pastors teach that women cannot refuse anything their husband wants, including sex.

Marital rape is not real, because he owns her body and marriage is a lifetime pass for sex, whenever, wherever, and however he wants it.

[–]SafetyDanceInMyPants 29 points30 points  (28 children)

I also don’t think that was what Jesus was talking about — I don’t think “turn the other cheek” meant “stay in an abusive relationship.” What he was saying was that you shouldn’t respond to violence with violence — that you should try to break the cycle of violence by refusing to respond in kind. He was decidedly not saying “just let your husband kick the shit out of you.” On the contrary, he said that when our brothers and sisters sin we should rebuke them—not just let them do it—and so what the church should be doing here is rebuking the abuser and helping the abused.

But there are a lot of Christians out there — and a lot of pastors — who really haven’t read the damn book they’re waving around, so I’m 100% sure there are some of them who would tell a woman suffering abuse that she should “turn the other cheek.”

[–]altagato 243 points244 points  (1 child)

Please seek an actual domestic violence counselor, seek to file custody of the kids, make a full plan to get out and stay out. Document document document.

For the love of actual God... dump that whole church in the trash while you're at it. Find one supportive of a loving and safe home for you and the children!

[–]G-I-T-M-E 18 points19 points  (0 children)

Or even better: Dump it and be done with it for good.

[–]littlefire_2004 408 points409 points  (11 children)

3 because religion is based on control and according to a book written by men to give men more power they (men) use that to justify abuse. Fuck religion. If you need religion to be a good person, then you are not a good person.

[–]Trans Manc-c-c-cassian 133 points134 points  (0 children)

Yep… my mom’s first husband raped her… at 15. She was forced to marry him because “once you’ve had sex, that’s it.” (She’s 80 now for context on the time period.) she almost certainly wasn’t the first person he forced himself on, though.

She didn’t even divorce him because he abused her. Not even after she almost killed him one night for hitting one of the kids.

No; she divorced him because her preacher told her that he stepped out of the relationship first. (Because he cheated on her, many, many times on top of the other abuse.) Part of me hopes that that preacher really was just a decent guy who was approaching it in the way that my mother wouldn’t shut down and would consider significant enough to “break her vow to god” over because, in the guys words, her abuser had already done that. But I’m not sure.

Despite that though, her own mother did not speak to her for two years after that. Because she did so. Didn’t matter that he cheated on, raped, or beat her daughter. (Or that he likely had murdered at least one person—this one I can’t verify but what I recall, it was extremely likely.)

[–]4812622 79 points80 points  (8 children)

The Bible says that divorce is only acceptable in cases of adultery or if a non-Christian divorces a Christian.

Mark 10:11-12 He answered, “Anyone who divorces his wife and marries another woman commits adultery against her. And if she divorces her husband and marries another man, she commits adultery.”

Matthew 19:9 9 I tell you that anyone who divorces his wife, except for sexual immorality, and marries another woman commits adultery.”

Corinthians 7:15 To the married I give charge, not I but the Lord, that the wife should not separate from her husband (but if she does, let her remain single or else be reconciled to her husband) --and that the husband should not divorce his wife. To the rest I say, not the Lord, that if any brother has a wife who is an unbeliever, and she consents to live with him, he should not divorce her. If any woman has a husband who is an unbeliever, and he consents to live with her, she should not divorce him. For the unbelieving husband is consecrated through his wife, and the unbelieving wife is consecrated through her husband. Otherwise, your children would be unclean, but as it is they are holy. 15 But if the unbelieving partner desires to separate, let it be so; in such a case the brother or sister is not bound. For God has called us to peace."

Therefore, even if divorce was the option that would be the best overall for all parties, your preacher would be unable to advise you to get divorced, because hitting your wife is not an acceptable reason for divorce in Christianity. Therefore you cannot trust a priest to give sound advice on whether to get divorced.

Furthermore, in Christianity, women are to blame for original sin, and therefore, they must suffer and be subservient to men.

Genesis 3:16 To the woman he said, “I will greatly increase your pangs in childbearing; in pain you shall bring forth children, yet your desire shall be for your husband, and he shall rule over you.”

Timothy 2:12 But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence.

Since your preacher is Christian, he thinks that your husband is justified to mistreat you because God gave him the authority to rule over you.

Shake off the brainwashing. Fuck the Bible, it was written to justify the enslavement and abuse of women. Your husband has been abusing you. Get out before he kills you. Save your kids.

[–]-THOUGHTS 27 points28 points  (4 children)

gosh that's a lengthy piece of text just to teach ppl how to be stupid and trapped. thank u for knowing specifically where to reference.

[–]4812622 38 points39 points  (3 children)

The Church resisted allowing the Bible to be translated from Latin into a language anyone actually understood because actually reading the Bible is one of the best ways to realize Christianity is so fucked.

[–]littlefire_2004 4 points5 points  (0 children)

Both morally and physically

[–]HuntingForSanity 70 points71 points  (0 children)

I didn’t even need to read the post to form my answer about the question in the title. I did read it though. And she is very obviously not responsible for this.

I hope this can open your eyes a little bit more OP and realize that 1): you are a person that deserves to feel safe and happy inside of your own home. 2): you really need to get a divorce before you or your kids are in more danger. And 3): that you should make a lot of distance between yourself and this church.

They are not looking out for you or your families well-being. Only appearances. I believe in you OP and know that you can do what you need to do to protect your family.

There are a lot of people here who can help you find the resources you need to do what you need to do

[–]Face_with_a_View 47 points48 points  (1 child)

All 4 of these answers can be backed up by facts.

OP needs to get her kids out of this home. Now.

[–]OutsidePale2306 20 points21 points  (0 children)

But with a plan of escape, not letting him know, taking everything out and never, ever returning and getting help from a strong male (brother, cousin, someone trustworthy and safe to keep the secret) and counseling for her dv. I wish you love, happiness with your children and a good life that’s safe and peaceful. PS DUMP THE CHURCH

[–]Bazoo92 30 points31 points  (3 children)

This is great advice. Its time to start saftey planning for a potential exit and what that would look like. Having an emergency stash of money to pay for a taxi or accommodation or a flight is usually a good start. A support person who can be a witness and a safety word with them is also a good option.

There are some great services and phone apps that help you protect yourself and your kids. Im sorry that you have to go through this but your children will respect you for it.

[–]Ragnarok314159 14 points15 points  (1 child)

And make sure the support person is not the priest.

[–]Bazoo92 4 points5 points  (0 children)

Hahaha, yes, definatley this XD

[–]dark2023 26 points27 points  (2 children)

  1. Not even a little bit. "Mutual abuse" is merely a justification abusers use. Only 1 person held the power in the relationship, and we both know it was him.

  2. Absolutely. Literally a textbook example.

  3. Because he's actively enabling the abuse &/or doesn't care about your wellbeing.

  4. Yes, divorce is 110% your best/only option at this point.

I know how domestic abusers think, as a male former abuser myself (thankfully figured my BS out in my early 20s before the guilt was insurmountable, due to permanently losing a decade long relationship with my highschool sweetheart, lotta growth, lotta shame. I'm a statistical anomaly). It's not 100% impossible for an abusive man to change, but it IS exceedingly rare and never occurs while they are still in a relationship with any of their victims. Abusive romantic relationships are not fixable or recoverable once that line has been crossed. Once it has happened, the possibility of it happening again WILL always exists, and the likelihood will only increase over time. For all intents and purposes, it is equivalent to relationship-homicide, as in the relationship is DEAD, and the honest hard truth is that the longer you stay, the higher the likelihood gets that you eventually will be too.

Take the kids and leave NOW. Not "next time", not "if it gets worse", not "after things settle". NOW. and never look back. It will be easiest if you move all your stuff out while he's at work or out of the house.

The relationship will never recover. If he's lucky, truly remorseful, and willing to work heavily on himself, then there's a tiny chance that you leaving MAY be the catalyst needed to inspire some change within him, for his NEXT relationship. But he will never be better for you. Even if he really believes he's changed or learned something/s the 2 of you are done. If he assaulted you once, it's just a matter of time before it happens again.

!! Stop looking for rationalizations or justifications for his behavior. All abusers start as victims, but that's no excuse whatsoever. He actively chose to assault you that night. That was HIS choice, and I'm telling you from experience that it didn't come out of nowhere. It's absolutely something he's considered before, many times. In the past, he decided no, but this time, he figured it was acceptable, or he was so angry he didn't care. I need you to understand that if you stay, you are implicitly agreeing with him about this. No matter what either of you SAY by staying you are making an unspoken agreement that his behavior was warranted, excusable, and therefore acceptable. In his mind, by staying, you are implying that if you act out of line enough, he is allowed to beat you. He WILL perceive it as you giving him permission to abuse you in the future.

If this abusive cycle is established and continues, then it will almost definitely get worse. Thousands of women are F'ing murdered by their husbands every year, either purposefully or accidentally. There's a good reason the husband is always the first suspect when a married woman is murdered. Even IF that never happens, you and your husband are establishing a cycle of violence that WILL pass onto your children. Even if he DOES limit it to just you, and that's unlikely, what will your children learn by witnessing this? That's part of what happened to me. It's literally in everyone's best interest for you to ditch this man. Yes, divorce him immediately. It's better and safer for you, it's vastly better for your kids, it's even possibly better for him too. Once is already one time too many.

(Also, if possible, I highly suggest buying a pistol AFTER you've left. Definitely keep it WAY out of reach from the kids. But I'm telling you now that no piece of paper/court order or words will stop an abusive man even half as fast as a 124gr hollowpoint can. Even just the sight/threat can turn the angriest man into a proper gentleman who's just desperately looking to make it home again. But don't flash it unless you're absolutely ready to use it and DEFINITELY DO. NOT. EVER tell him about it. I'll finish by saying the cops will take minutes to arrive if/when seconds count & you need help NOW. Their final option is also a handgun, so cut out the middleman and be your own first responder if necessary. You keep an extinguisher in your home in case of a fire emergency, right? A properly stored and secret handgun is basically the same except for a violent emergency)

[–]myguitarplaysit 23 points24 points  (0 children)

Agreed. Mentioning it might be worth going to the er to get checked out and documentation of your injuries. This is not okay. If you reach out to a DV hotline, they can give you tips for keeping safe and getting out safely. Take care of yourself, OP

[–]Wattaday 4 points5 points  (0 children)

And 3-just because they are a pastor does not mean they have been trained in how to counsel people in this position.

[–]prettyconvincing 4 points5 points  (0 children)

As someone who's been through a situation similar, I support this statement.

Once someone puts their hands on you, it will not end there, it will escalate exponentially and frequently. After being choked by a spouse in a domestic violence situation, 50% end up murdered.

It took me 5 years from when I decided to leave to actually get out. You need to separate money, not tell people. I had trusted friends that I could tell, you know who you can trust. If you have family that would be able to keep you safe, and be on your side, you could go to them. If you're afraid of losing your house or losing something major in the divorce, you'll need to consult with a lawyer first, but your safety and the kids safety should be number one priority.

The hoarding will not change without professional help, which he has been clear about not wanting. It sounds like he may have a mental disorder. Untreated OCD often leads to hoarding.

Lastly, It took me a number of years to deconstruct from religious trauma.Your views will likely change once you are removed from the situation. Churches definitely like to protect their own, they're very patriarchal, and the burden is often placed on women to maintain and fix relationships. It is not your job to fix him, or support his mental illness. Get out, get safe.

[–]InAcquaVeritas 6 points7 points  (0 children)

All of the above. Do you have women’s charities in the US? We have Woman’d Aid here that OP could call for help escaping with the children and find a shelter.

OP - please don’t minimise this. Go to the police and show your bruises. You need an injunction order and keep this man away from you and your children.

[–]PoppyAppletree 1697 points1698 points  (13 children)

Leavehimleavehimleavehimleavehim

Edit: 

But the preacher said, “No need to go to professionals. Just give your pain to God. He will heal it.” 

Absolute fucking cult bullshit

[–]SnooRobots1438 346 points347 points  (4 children)

By blaming the victim.

Helluva god he's got there

[–]Mikki-chan 157 points158 points  (1 child)

With a god like that who needs the devil?

[–]MannyMoSTL 136 points137 points  (2 children)

GO TO THE POLICE! And ER.

Get everything documented.

You WILL need proof of abuse because the system does not believe victims. Especially not without pictures and the “proof” that you actually went to the police.

You need to start your paper trail yesterday.

[–]QuickAsAKoala 36 points37 points  (0 children)

Definitely take photos and make a report. OP has young children and will need documentation in the custody battle. Also photos of the home. Husband has a mental health condition (aside from the violence, the hoarding alone is a reason for op to have sole custody) and his home will not be a safe place for the children until he gets professional help

[–]CCMMPP 3 points4 points  (0 children)

Exactly. Cops and clergy are both patriarchal cultists.

[–]emi_fyi 133 points134 points  (0 children)

what a weird way for the preacher to say "i'm incompetent and you shouldn't listen to me" 🙄

[–]Arbor_Arabicae 22 points23 points  (0 children)

Blindingly irresponsible. And I say that as a fellow clergy person.

[–]citrineskye 15 points16 points  (0 children)

Totally culty.

Op: Tell the preacher you spoke to the big man upstairs and he said that violence is always a good reason to leave and that he's ashamed that a priest would be such a twat!

Have you got family you and your children can go to, who you trust? Consider a restraining order and get out of there without altering him to what you're doing. Stay safe x

[–]vodka7tall 1670 points1671 points  (5 children)

  1. FUCK NO.
  2. FUCK YES!
  3. The church believes an abusive marriage is better than divorce.
  4. Girl, RUN.

[–]braydeniayancf79 247 points248 points  (3 children)

ain't no "self reflection" gonna fix a dude who thinks biting and punching is okay. Once hands are thrown, it’s done. OP gotta protect herself and the kids, not his toy collection or his ego

[–]peanutbutterandapen 87 points88 points  (2 children)

The biting took me out. Toddlers do that, and it's unacceptable even at that age. Wtf.

[–]Tris-Von-Q 47 points48 points  (0 children)

Not even just biting which threw me too. Biting. Over a fucking toy. The mental image is infuriating.

This is definitely a toddler trying to call himself a man.

[–]Drycee 11 points12 points  (0 children)

It's not even acceptable for a 3 month old puppy who's basically designed to bite everything. It's a hot take I know but I think we can set the bar for any human person, no matter what personal struggles they may have, at least as high as for a puppy.

[–]PinkThunder138 322 points323 points  (0 children)

Your husband is an abusive piece of shit.

Your preacher is no better.

This may be the first time, but it will not be the last.

Get out NOW.

[–]FuckSakez 358 points359 points  (7 children)

  1. No. He didn’t snap. He wanted to hit you for binning his toy to punish you and maintain control. He made a decision to hit you and felt justified. You can’t make anyone let alone a romantic partner hit you. He then gaslit you and blamed you for his actions and for your being upset by being physically attacked. You’re healing from pregnancy. He knows you’re recovering and vulnerable and he does.not.care.

  2. YES THIS IS ABUSE! This behaviour will escalate. He will hit your kids. Leave him. He doesn’t respect or care for you and the kids. You are not safe. He will escalate and keep abusing you. He will choke you or worse. He used to raise his voice and now he bit you and raised his fist. He will do it again if you stay. Enough is enough. He has contempt for you and will become even more volatile if he realises you want to leave him. He may even try and kill you to keep control and stop you leaving. Please be careful and plan your exit carefully and meticulously. Your safety and the kids is the priority. Spending money on toys and taking over the entire house is financial abuse. Leaving you and the kids no space is abuse. The way he speaks to you is coercive and abusive.

  3. Your pastor is a disgrace. Religion is by men for men. He doesn’t want you to separate or to hold your husband to account for his hoarding or his abuse. He wants you and the kids at service acting meek. He is not objective. Your relationship with god is your own. Fuck the MIL too. It’s dominance under a guise. This is not gentle and kind love. He is no expert. He is not in your marriage or the one being abused in your relationship. He gets zero say. His focus could have been on guiding your husband to seek help and counselling. He should move out and sell his toys to make amends. He should be in anger management and rehab for his addictions. Instead he shifted to blame and control of you the mother. It’s the patriarchal way. If your husband kills you (which is statistically more likely now that he’s attacked you sadly) will he shrug the same way and say “he lost control.” Fuck that and fuck him. If god could heal he should have healed your husband from his addiction and being a terrible person. Cult logic right there! Do as I say; not do as I do!

  4. YES.

Divorce would be easier than dealing with his hoarding and volatile moods. If you don’t take action he will harm your kids physically in time. Calling them your kids like he has no responsibility or love for them is literally disgusting. They’re his children and you’re his family. He has a responsibility to care for and about you all. You didn’t magically get pregnant yourself. You’re upset due to his spending addictions and hoarding and because he physically assaulted you. This is a normal and reasonable reaction to someone you love hurting you. You’re acting ‘like a victim’ because you are a victim of HIS abuse and mental illness. He’s choosing his addiction and his hoarding over his family. You’re dealing with 3 kids. Go to the doctor and get a report of the abuse asap. Take photos of the abuse when he can’t get to them. Get a burner phone and a P.O. Box. Set up a new email only you have the password to and document everything. Print the pics hard copy. Save the pics to the new cloud only you have access to. Take the kids birth certs and other important documents and lock them in this PO Box or a new vault in a new bank. Your husband should have no access and no knowledge of this under any circumstances. Change the password on your phone and set up two factor authentication. Take your Face ID off and your biometrics off your main phone. Have a pin he doesn’t know. Change all of your email and social media passwords. Make sure he has no access to the cloud for shared storage. Turn off family sharing on devices. Buy gift cards in the shops and hide them so you’ll have cash for food and essentials should he get nastier and empty the bank account in an effort to control you. Gather any jewellery that you could pawn in an emergency and keep it outside of the house. Plan now for a clean break to keep you and the kids safe. He will absolutely try and sabotage this severance. Do not underestimate a violent and desperate addict-that is who he is. Go to a lawyer and talk through all of your options ASAP. After the lawyer you’ll need to make a police report and possibly a protective order. Call your local women’s aid for advice and support TODAY for next steps.

I hope he shits the bed selling all his toys to pay for maintenance and a new house when you separate. I hope he has a lumpy and hot pillow for the rest of his life. He is despicable and you deserve so much better in life. Mind yourself and mind your babies. This is not the happy safe and loving life you deserve. You can have all of these things when he’s your ex husband. Stay strong and make your moves in silence for now. Bonus points for making the horrible MIL an ex too. No more family parties with that witch. Small mercies.

Delete this post and your account once you’ve read all of the advice to be safe 💛

[–]GilreanEstel 127 points128 points  (2 children)

One of these days and sooner than later one of those kids is going to find a toy to play with that isn’t theirs. Kids have no understanding of personal property so they see a cool toy they will play with it and they will likely break it. What will he do then?

[–]Rakifiki 103 points104 points  (1 child)

He called them 'her' kids. He'll abuse the kid.

[–]always_unplugged 64 points65 points  (0 children)

“If you don’t have enough money to get a bigger house, don’t give birth to two kids.”

As though he had no part in the whole having two kids thing?? Is OP the new Virgin Mary twice over? And did OP agree to split costs so that she covers all the family's basic needs and he buys... toys? Or is someone spending all their money filling the house they do have up with physical manifestations of what sounds like severe mental illness?

Everything is everyone else's fault, absolutely.

This man is too deep in his hoarding; these fucking toys mean infinitely more to him than his own children. The minute they step out of line, those kids are fair game too.

[–]marshmallow_crunch 36 points37 points  (0 children)

You pointed out the exact thing that gave me a weird feeling when I read it, but I didn’t go back to figure out why. Calling his children “your kids” as if they only belong to OP because she birthed them is absolutely FUCKED. This is 100% the best advice I’ve read so far. I hope OP sees it.

The one thing I hate to see is women reaching out for help/clarity when they’re in abusive relationships, and the comments are filled with support and advice, but zero replies from OP. Makes me wonder and worry that they posted and never looked at the replies because things got worse and they weren’t safe enough to check the post again. It always stresses me out. I hope OP is okay. 😔

[–]ThrashCardiom 694 points695 points  (15 children)

Leave him.

[–]30-something 579 points580 points  (9 children)

This - and also I bet he doesn’t “lose control” and hit his boss / mother / best friend when he’s mad at them. No, he didn’t lose control- if he did he’d lose it at everyone. Not just you.

[–]SnooRobots1438 171 points172 points  (5 children)

Exactly 💯💯💯

Paster is not a safe person to trust. IDK what he stands to gain from you being abused, but if his god tells him this is the way - he's either a liar, fool, or both.

[–]67teebird 22 points23 points  (4 children)

He’s never been in this situation, why trust him?

[–]RubyBBBB 18 points19 points  (0 children)

I bet the pastor has heard a similar story from many women. As a mental health professional I have talked to a lot of women who are victims of abuse. This is very common advice from Evangelical pastors. Just blaming the victim and it protects male status.

[–]perseidot 33 points34 points  (1 child)

While you’re right, I wonder what he’d do if any of those people (or the pastor) started throwing his toys away in front of him. My guess is that he would react violently toward them as well, in that specific situation.

Hoarding disorder doesn’t excuse his violence, and his behavior may be an aspect of his disorder (plus childhood trauma, from what OP wrote.)

Again, neither trauma nor hoarding disorder excuses his violence, even when his violence is associated with his disorder. Many people deal with similar mental health issues every day without biting their spouses.

[–]SanityInAnarchy 14 points15 points  (0 children)

Other possible tells of abusers being "in control" are when the violence is still against things, rather than people. If he can't help breaking your things, but he'd never break his things...

But like you said, it's kinda beside the point. Either he chose violence, or he can't control his violence. Either way, he's violent.

[–]og_kitten_mittens 61 points62 points  (0 children)

This is the only answer. OP - if you are on the fence, remember children will go on to replicate their childhood in their adult relationships.

Do you want your children to choose a partner like your husband for themselves? Because if you stay, that is the type of partner they will feel at home with

[–]Puzzleheaded-Ad7606 12 points13 points  (0 children)

AND THAT CHURCH

[–]bottleglitch 2 points3 points  (0 children)

100%. Even everything before the physical abuse makes this sound unsalvageable.

[–]EggsAndMilquetoast 1356 points1357 points  (31 children)

  1. No

  2. Yes

  3. Patriarchy

  4. Yes

[–]DarbyGirl 380 points381 points  (1 child)

All this.

Run. You can't fix this. No one can fix this.

[–]ChitteringCathode 168 points169 points  (0 children)

You can't fix this, it's not your job to fix it, and you don't want to fix it, either. You aren't safe and your children aren't safe.

GET
OUT
NOW!

[–]aveforever 122 points123 points  (1 child)

I will upvote this all day.

Please find resources and leave. I believe if you hang around this thread long enough many will be posted.

I'm sorry that people you trusted have let you down in such a monumental way. <3

[–]totallydawgsome 14 points15 points  (0 children)

Please find resources and leave

Hopefully OP has people and resources away from the church. Once you get involved they become those things to you. I would not trust anyone in that church if OP needs to leave quietly.

[–]LabSheep88 116 points117 points  (6 children)

My dad was a hoarder and before my mom left him, he was starting to get violent. He would lock us in our rooms for disrespecting him (aka, disturbing/moving his piles) he would take us shopping for hours and leave us in the store alone(we were all under 10, CPS was called). Leave him now he is showing that his hoarding is more important than the family, just like my dad did.

[–]MegaraTheMean 42 points43 points  (3 children)

This, right here. He's literally pushing his family out with his stuff. I'm sorry you and your family had to go through that. I've spent time in some hoarder houses. It's... an overwhelming experience.

[–]LabSheep88 23 points24 points  (2 children)

Ooooh the house was a shit hole when he left, I'm talking black mold, barely the ability to walk in the House, ceiling caving in from rot... We paid close to $20,000 to have the hoarding cleaned out 😭

[–]MegaraTheMean 4 points5 points  (1 child)

Wow. $20k? It's a wonder anyone could live there for any real length of time. I've seen places like this in person. Seeing it from afar and actually being in it are such wildly different experiences. Glad to hear it ended but really, so sorry you all had to endure that.

[–]LabSheep88 7 points8 points  (0 children)

That was only for the top floor, the basement (it was flooded) cost about $30,000. I used two different companies. So, the total to clean out was almost 40/50 ( I'd have to look at the billing) it was a headache... But if you live in the Chicagoland area I have a recommendation for you regarding hoarding clean up! Either way, my dad kept everything from coins to his parents furniture that was shoved into a room, sadly because of this, a lot of precious/valuable things were damaged...

ETA: it was kinda sad that there was only a pathway to a TV area and his bed... No other pathway. A 3000 sqft house was reduced to that... We also found alot of dead mice and bugs 🤢

[–]Art_and_Roses 21 points22 points  (0 children)

Everything said right here. I’ve been in your situation, not precisely but close enough. Get out get out get out. This will only escalate and you being killed is a true possibility. It may not seem like it now but I promise the potential is always there.

[–]AuroraDorealis 25 points26 points  (0 children)

I was planning to give these same answers in this same format.

[–]Lydiafae 108 points109 points  (15 children)

The biggest issue is his hoarding disorder. The verbal fight showed he is willing to act violently due to his hoarding disorder. it is not your responsibility to keep his hoarding disorder under control. There are ways to go about treating and managing it. But you are not responsible for that. He is. You do not need to be present in his life while he figures out how to do it. And while you leaving may make the disorder worse, if he was managing it probably, it wouldn't. And again, not your fault nor responsibility.

-911, what's your emergency?

-My husband just bit, punched and clawed at me, leaving marks. We had a verbal disagreement on how his hoarding is taking over the house and he is throwing away our children's necessities to make room for his hoard. I am less than 3 months postpartum and still on maturnity leave. Both kids are under 5.

-Do you feel safe?

-crying on the floor-

-Stay put, we're sending over an ambulance and officers.

This is what OP describes. Your husband probably would have been arrested if you called and didn't drop charges. OP should be able to file for a restraining order.

I'm sure the priest has heard worse from marriages, and this behavior is so normalized it doesn't rate. Priests are not psychologists. They are community leaders who at best have little training to deal with these questions and want to maintain serenity within the community. At worse, you get the misogynistic and intolerant views. Both are geared towards maintaining the status quo.

Separation and divorce are not unwarranted here. He will resort to physical violence if his hoard is touched or threatened. If one of your kids gets ahold of his hoard and accidentally ruins it, I seriously fear how he would react.

ETA transcript example, removed "trigger" because it apparently makes people upset.

[–]Arbor_Arabicae 994 points995 points  (2 children)

I'm an ordained member of the clergy. This pastor is wrong. Hitting you is inexcusable. Please, get yourself and your kids out of there as soon as possible.

1) No, you are not responsible. 2) Yes, it is domestic abuse. 3) This guy is probably inculcated with patriarchial mores that say that keeping the family together at all costs is of paramount importance. Needless to say, I disagree with that 100%.

As to your fourth question, it's up to you, but will you ever feel safe with your husband again?

[–]perseidot 83 points84 points  (0 children)

Thank you for your great response from the perspective of another clergy person. I hope OP sees your comment.

[–]avocado4guac 11 points12 points  (0 children)

I’m not ordained but I am a Christian and want to remind OP of the twofold law of love. Basically loving God is expressed through loving your neighbor. If your husband is abusive to you he’s a bad Christian and doesn’t love God. And if that strange preacher person doesn’t call him out, you can be assured that they have never even understood the very principle of Christianity. Don’t let them try to gaslight you! You are in the right and protecting your children and yourself from further abuse is the only godly thing to do here. Your husband needs psychiatric help but that’s not your job. “God has called you to a life of peace.” (1 Corinthians 7, 15) - your life isn’t really peaceful with your husband in it, is it? Sending you lots of support! You got this!

[–]EvlCuddlyBunny 353 points354 points  (3 children)

Stop going to antiquated old men for marriage advice. They do nothing but, try to keep women in chains! Your husband is in the wrong and even if you did provoke him by throwing away a toy, it gives him zero right to assault you.

[–]AllSugarAndSalt 119 points120 points  (2 children)

My mother is one of the most Catholic women that have ever catholiced. But I remember as a child listening to her scornfully tell her sister why on earth was she going to a priest about marriage advice, and how would a celibate old man know anything about relationships, and what use would he be for anything. Still grin now just thinking about it.

[–]pepcorn 17 points18 points  (0 children)

Your mother is a wise woman.

[–]Jog212 91 points92 points  (1 child)

This preacher will gladly say a prayer over your dead body.....but he will not tell you you are in danger and you should leave. He will not blame your partner for your death. Get AWAY!

[–]govgoose 159 points160 points  (0 children)

To answer your questions:

  1. Absolutely not, your husband is an abusive pos
  2. YES THIS IS 1000% ABUSE
  3. He’s probably misogynistic
  4. Yes, if you want your children to have a healthy home life.

[–]Astrium6 144 points145 points  (3 children)

Even before we get to the domestic violence issue: your husband has a severe mental health disorder that’s affecting your quality of life and it will not get better without treatment. That’s the baseline here.

[–]Cheap_Papaya_2938 51 points52 points  (0 children)

Exactly. Like holy shit even before I got to the physical abuse I was thinking girl, you need to get out now.

[–]Mister-Sister 7 points8 points  (0 children)

SERIOUSLY!

[–]freya_kahlo 137 points138 points  (13 children)

Get familiar with the term "reactive abuse" – that's when someone goads you into fighting back by purposely pushing you to that point. That's what happened. Yes, you shouldn't have hit him, and are responsible for that (meaning your actions), but he's responsible for everything else (including abusing you). You're living in an unworkable environment. He's continuing to choose his hoarding addiction because he feels entitled to do that. Read this book too.

[–]dallyan 23 points24 points  (3 children)

One thing I learned is that once you lay hands on a man there is no telling how he will react and most of the time they ARE stronger than us.

[–]PaintedSwindle 30 points31 points  (3 children)

I'm glad someone is pointing out that she shouldn't have hit him also. I'm fully on her side, I just want to make sure we don't forget that no one should hit anyone, for any reason, whatever the gender.

[–]freya_kahlo 9 points10 points  (2 children)

The reason I mentioned reactive abuse is because that is something abuse victims display. And yes, they are responsible for their actions, but it's more complicated. Her husband is clearly acting in an extremely selfish manner and forcing her to live in extremely difficult conditions – fully due to his choices. Then during an argument, he said the thing to her that would make her the angriest – implying that she made a selfish choice to have 2 kids when he's making extremely selfish choices on a daily basis. By getting her to react so extremely, he can cast her as the "bad guy" and also justify worse physical abuse of her. Their church community goes along with this idea that she deserves it. Then ultimately he can continue to feel entitled to do whatever he likes. That's the pattern of reactive abuse.

Also: being aware of the pattern is important because it can help her not step into that trap.

[–]mataliandy 40 points41 points  (4 children)

What happens if your child breaks one of his toys? If he uses the same level of violence against a child that he used against you, what will that do to the child? Will he break a child's arm? Leave them with scratch and bite scars for life? Shake them into brain damage? Worse?

This is an unstable and dangerous person who has built a living hell that has (literally) no room for anyone else.

He is unsafe. The house is unsafe. You are unsafe. Your children are unsafe.

GET. YOURSELF. AND. YOUR. CHILDREN. AWAY. FROM. THIS. MAN.

IF you can get away from the entire community, all the better. You need to find a community of people who support you, and it sounds like you're not part of such a community.

[–]smallf4iry 6 points7 points  (0 children)

thissss op really needs to read this. If he can do that to his wife we can not imagine how much worse he can do the children.

[–]bmvazquez 98 points99 points  (0 children)

Oh my word, no, it’s not your fault. Not in this universe, not in any universe. No. Religion, I’m sorry to say, is a deeply misogynistic tradition.

[–]PupperoniPoodle 76 points77 points  (0 children)

Don't go to counseling with your abuser. Go to a professional for individual therapy if you want that kind of help for yourself, but avoid even professional help with this man. And never tell that preacher another single thing!

Find a domestic violence organization near you to get help planning a safe escape. Leaving is the most dangerous time, as abusers can escalate wildly when they feel they are losing control.

[–]rainbowshummingbird 171 points172 points  (3 children)

Get a real therapist. Don’t trust a Christian.

[–]ThatLadyOverThereSay 44 points45 points  (0 children)

Hate to say it but even Christian "therapy" kept my mother tranquilized and in an abusive relationship for decades. Get someone secular to give you counseling- just you. They are mandated by the state to report abuse- churches are absolutely not.

[–]unionqueen 21 points22 points  (0 children)

I am a licensed counselor. There is movement to legally prevent people for saying they are a counselor. Fifty years ago if you called the police they would ask what you did to make him angry. In CT there was a lawsuit called the Tracy Thurman case. She was badly beaten by husband after many calls for help. In 1988 she won a million dollars and forever changed the way police handle domestics. You have received excellent advice from commenters here. Please look up a shelter and go with your children. In time your parents will come around help. Times are different and people are caring in these circumstances. You dont deserve this. I wish you well and thanks to everyone who is supporting you here.

[–]Depressed_Girlypop 43 points44 points  (0 children)

Wild, I figured he’d be asking for self-reflection on yourself for if you deserve this. You don’t deserve it by the way. As someone who went through DV, it only gets worse. I’d just let the man figure out his own place to live, and keep the kids away as much as you can. If he does this to his wife he’s probably going to do it to his kids at some point.

[–]RadioScotty 112 points113 points  (2 children)

Get out now. You were wrong to hit him, but his response was way out of proportion. Go to a shelter. Your husband is mentally ill to the point of violence.

[–]bajanbeautykatie 18 points19 points  (0 children)

Self reflect that the preacher is gaslighting you? How the hell are you responsible for a grown man and his actions? This isn’t your fault….please don’t go down that road. Self reflection for yourself needs to be questions like do I want to live like this for the rest of my life? Can my nervous system handle being attacked sporadically by my spouse? Those are the self reflection questions you should be asking

[–]cwmckenz 54 points55 points  (0 children)

He has emotionally abused you in the past and declined to seek out any professional counseling? Disregards your space and your property, and that of your kids? And now this?

It doesn’t sound like there is anything worth staying for. He will likely harm you again. Even if you knew beyond a doubt that he wouldn’t, it would still be time to go.

[–]ZoneWombat99 38 points39 points  (1 child)

Look, you have children to protect. Your husband is not mentally well and you cannot raise children in this house. So if you won't do it for yourself, do it for them.

You are not at fault. He is at fault. Your preacher is a horrible person. Get somewhere safe with your children and start divorce proceedings. Document everything you can so that he never gets any custody of the children and doesn't have access to their stuff that he can throw away.

[–]aware_nightmare_85 68 points69 points  (0 children)

You are not responsible for his behavior. Get out 🚩🚩🚩🚩

[–]Sunnygirl66 14 points15 points  (0 children)

YES, this is domestic abuse. If he did this to a stranger on the street, or a co-worker, you’d have no problem calling this what it is—assault and battery—and calling the police.

No one in this scenario—your husband, “your” pastor, your nightmare MIL—cares about you. You need to get some people in your corner and divorce your wretched husband before he puts you in the hospital or the morgue and leaves your kids without a mother.

[–]harbinger06 15 points16 points  (0 children)

Neither of you had an excuse to hit the other. But you need to get rid of the husband and the preacher.

[–]ZZBC 70 points71 points  (2 children)

  1. You absolutely are not responsible for being hit

  2. Yes. This is domestic violence.

  3. Because unfortunately many religions are deeply misogynistic.

  4. Divorce is a likely outcome unless he’s willing to see a professional for mental health help and change his behavior.

This is not a safe or healthy environment for your children.

[–]Creative_username969 18 points19 points  (1 child)

With respect to your no. 4, never go to therapy with abusers. It just teaches them how to hurt you worse.

[–]marshmallow_crunch 4 points5 points  (0 children)

I think they were suggesting that OP’s husband go to see a therapist alone, not to couples therapy.

[–]Ok-disaster2022 36 points37 points  (0 children)

  1. No, abusive man-children who collect toys  to the detriment of the family and home life are still responsible for their own actions especially willful violence. 

  2. This is domestic abuse. Do you feel safe in your own home, do you think your kids are safe in their own home? if you have bruising you should take pictures and report him to the police and get a protective order removing him from the house for a few months while you work on a divorce. 

  3. Many religious leaders want to protect the image of marriage to the detriment of the people in the partnerships. Your should be ex husband was already abusing you. If you had gone to secular counseling, he wouldn't have stopped abusing you, he would have developed a better vocabulary to justify his and extend his abuse. Counseling tends to empower abusers, especially the manipulative kind it doesn't end abuse. 

  4. Divorce is the best legal option. But even amicable divorces can be long and emotionally draining, and this is going to be an ugly one of the MIL is close in the picture and baby's him.

I have a friend who's going through divorce because her husband beat her repeatedly until the cops were finally called.  Funny thing when she was bruised from the beatings  she stayed home so no one asked. He'd still leave the home with whatever bruises he had from beating his wife. So of course the rumors around town was she was abusive. Abusers manipulate. They will gaslight. 

Get out now because it's only ever going to get worse. What you thought were bad days will one day be considered a good day, because everything would have gotten so much worse. 

[–]lol8omg 56 points57 points  (9 children)

I agree with all the gtfo posts, but everyone is ignoring a sentence that stood out to me.

"I slapped his chest a few times out of frustration."

So. you hit him first?

Doesn't excuse how far he went, but if you started the fight physically. this becomes another issue if it goes to court.

[–]p0ppunkpizzaparty 40 points41 points  (2 children)

Yeah, they both suck. Agree OP should gtfo but why is everyone glossing over that she instigated the physical violence

[–]Alternative-Bad-6555 27 points28 points  (1 child)

Yeah, to me the summary is

OP hits her shithead husband for being a shithead

Shithead husband responds like a shithead and hits her back

OP is shaken that a romantic partner would ever consider hitting, after hitting her romantic partner. To me, the second ANY violence occurs, a relationship is over.

[–][deleted] 6 points7 points  (0 children)

all of OP's questions about whether it was her fault or abusive and yet not a single shred of self-awareness 

[–]iwinsallthethings 35 points36 points  (0 children)

It’s domestic violence both ways.

From the story he’s a piece of crap, but the fact she got physical instead of walking out does not make her look good.

[–]Easy-Concentrate2636 7 points8 points  (1 child)

Agreed. She hit him and destroyed his possession.

He has a hoarding and shopping addiction problem.

It’s not good for either of them.

[–]sneakyturtles7 16 points17 points  (1 child)

This is what I was thinking and I’m disappointed I had to scroll so hard to see it. So many people jump to “girl HES abusive” but she literally slapped him first? They’re BOTH abusive?

[–]FUCancer_2008 21 points22 points  (0 children)

For #4 he's told you what to expect & so you need to leave him. It'snevee just 1 time & will excalate

[–]MysticYoYo 32 points33 points  (4 children)

Not a popular opinion, but you put your hands on him first. Don’t do that again. Now, concentrate on getting the hell out of there. It’s not safe for you and your kids, and not just because of the assault. The house sounds like a hoarder’s nightmare.

[–]happuning 9 points10 points  (0 children)

I agree.

You hit him first. Multiple times. Then, you trashed one of his toys. You clearly have an idea that he has some sort of mental problems going on. What did you expect?

You absolutely did not deserve for him to escalate his abuse in response to your physical abuse, but abuse is still abuse. You are post partum in a highly stressful situation. I can understand how you might have gotten to that point.

I would divorce him. It will take years of therapy and testing medications for him to get stable. You should have primary custody & dad have supervised visitation. He is not safe for them to be around if this toy problem is as huge as you say it is. They need a safe place to grow and thrive in.

[–]No-Papaya-9823 9 points10 points  (0 children)

You can't believe that a preacher would say that to you? Honey, religion exists in large part as a means of controlling and subjugating women. Please do yourself a favor and get out of this marriage. Never get involved with a religious man again, and leave the church because you will always be treated like a second-class citizen.

[–]=^..^=millicent_bystander- 8 points9 points  (0 children)

When your children get older, they are going to want to play with the toys regardless if they are deemed "collectable figures." How do you think the man baby will handle that?

He assaulted you, and he WILL do it to the children.

[–]Melzilla79 8 points9 points  (0 children)

My step dad was extremely abusive to myself and my mother. She went to our church "counselor" for help and they told her bullshit like "divorce is a sin" and also blamed her for what HE DID TO HER. You need to leave that man AND that church. You deserve to live in peace. So do your kids.

[–]Yeah_Mr_Jesus 26 points27 points  (1 child)

It's not your fault that your husband hit you

But you still did hit him. You also hit him first. So, it's not his fault that you hit him. You should have controlled your anger and not hit him. Note, I do think you have a very legitimate set of reasons for being incredibly frustrated with your husband, and that snarky, nasty and ignorant comment he made was designed to provoke some sort of response out of you. Unfortunately you took the bait and slapped him in the chest, per your own admission. Physical violence is not the solution

He may be apologizing for putting his hands on you now, but I guarantee the next opportunity he gets, he will very gladly tell you and anyone else who will listen how you got physical with him before he did anything. He could probably claim self defence and he would have a compelling argument.

I'm very sorry to say, but your relationship is toast and has been for a while if this is what it has come to. People on reddit are sometimes so quick to jump on the divorce bandwagon, but in your case, it is 100% completely and unquestionably the right option. For your own safety and for the safety of your children, you should leave him. I'm sorry for you that your significant other is such a lazy, entitled worm. If you can find a way, seek out counseling

[–]ckypsych 17 points18 points  (0 children)

You hit him, and that was not okay or justified.
He took things much further in a way that was unacceptable and disturbing.
People are questioning how violent he might be because there’s research and many real cases showing that pregnant and postpartum women are at higher risk for serious physical abuse. Only you can truly gauge your safety.

Many preachers push harmful ideas because they interpret the Bible to forbid divorce. They also resist it because divorce often means losing a tithing family from their congregation. There are deeply rooted male-dominated reasons behind this too. The “give your cares to God” advice is empty and harmful for many reasons.

The bottom line: your marriage is in serious trouble, or possibly already over. No one else can define that for you. Divorce isn’t the only option, but it would take major changes in thinking and behavior from both of you. He needs to grow up, stop acting like a man-child, take responsibility at home, and stop prioritizing pointless distractions. Based on what you’ve described, the responsibility is mostly his to recognize and change his behavior.

[–]KerissaKenro 7 points8 points  (0 children)

Your husband has an addiction. He needs some serious mental health, and he needs it now. You need to be away from him while he gets that treatment. Protect yourself and your children, or he will attack them when they start playing with his toys, like children do. Maybe he will recover enough to build a relationship again, but don’t plan on it

[–]lending_ear 40 points41 points  (2 children)

Im sorry OP what your husband did was wrong.

However I do not see anyone calling out your behavior. You slapped his chest? You seems to gloss over this.

That’s not ok. Also throwing someone’s stuff out is not ok. 

Everyone seems to be just whizzing past this detail. If still never deserves violence returned but at this point I’d say both of you are abusive. 

[–]Huge-Ad-4481[🍰] 10 points11 points  (0 children)

Agreed. Husband is abusive, mentally and physically. But OP also hit her husband which is also abuse

[–]Lovestripes 19 points20 points  (0 children)

This. To OP: 

Your husband is definitely abusive.

Hitting your husband is also an act of abuse. 

Both of you are clearly in the wrong. 

Is your husband more in the wrong? Yes. And you should definitely remove yourself and your children from this situation. 

But you need to reflect on your own abusive behaviours too. 

[–]Turdulator 13 points14 points  (0 children)

Lots of red flags here, you should think about leaving him for sure.

But also you have some self reflection, you said yourself in your post that you hit him first.

[–]7SeasofCheese 9 points10 points  (0 children)

“When I saw the living room filled with his toys again, I was furious. I told him this wasn’t okay and that we needed space for the kids. His response?

“If you don’t have enough money to get a bigger house, don’t give birth to two kids.”

That was beyond hurtful. I’m currently on maternity leave and only three months postpartum. I’ve been physically and emotionally exhausted, and I’ll admit I was extremely emotional in that moment. I lost it. I slapped his chest a few times out of frustration. Then I picked up one of his toy figures and threw it into the trash.

That’s when he snapped.

He bit me, scratched me, and punched my arm. He left visible bruises and scratches on my body. I ended up sitting on the floor, crying in pain and shock. And all he said was:

“Stop acting like you’re the victim.”

Since that night, my husband has been apologizing repeatedly. He keeps saying he didn’t mean it, that he lost control, and that he regrets what happened. But something in me has changed.”

What would you say if your friend or sister told you this story?

[–]sherilaugh 7 points8 points  (0 children)

Fuck sakes. You hit him first. You assaulted him. You both suck. Yes. Get a divorce. And some therapy. Your kids deserve better than both of you.

[–]kymreadsreddit 13 points14 points  (0 children)

I can't speak to 3 or 4 because it would all be speculation. But as for 1 and 2, 1=NO, 2=YES, with caveats.... You BOTH physically hit each other. Obviously, being enraged and hitting you is not okay - AT ALL. Full stop.

It is equally not okay for you to hit him, even if it was a few "slaps". And I will admit, I have a little trouble with your stance of not having violence in the house with the children when you were the instigator of the physicality.

All of that said, you no longer feel safe. That is valid. It makes literally ZERO difference what the preacher said - if you no longer feel safe, you can't/shouldn't stay there. Maybe that changes for you in the future - or NOT - but the point is that your current feelings cannot and should not be discounted.

[–]ManWithTheBeard 7 points8 points  (0 children)

  1. No, he is responsible for his actions.
  2. Yes, this is abuse. Abuse through violent action, abuse towards through words, and abuse to your children.
  3. Religion is often not the santuary it projects itself to be. Your preacher is still a human, and instead of listening and protecting you, he used it as time to teach you "God," and left you with excuses and blame. Christianity is a religion of dominance and punishment and should never be used for guidance on household situations.
  4. Divorce is the only option. Not just for you, but your kids. They need space to grow and live a happy life with you, happy and with space, to raise them.

Now, for some blunt un-asked for extra. You assaulted him. That is never acceptable in any way. Him resorting to higher levels of violence does not excuse you of your actions. That said, it sounds like your actions were from a burst of frustration. I can not assume you brought up to him that the toys are an issue where you set boundaries or expressed he needed therapy. This sounds like less of a hobby and more of an obsession. If you didn't, and you are with someone in the future, please do so to protect yourself and your kids. Any SO must respect you and your children's boundaries. If your concerns are not being heard with actions and support to show they value your comfort, it's not worth your time on this planet to continue being with someone.

[–]Redshirt2386 6 points7 points  (0 children)

Absolutely the fuck not. Take your babies and get out. Take it from someone who waited way too long to go … it DOES NOT get better. Go. Go now. Please.

[–]Slight_Citron_7064 29 points30 points  (0 children)

While it is much more dangerous for him to hit you than for you to hit him, and it also sounds as though his assault was much more aggressive and violent than yours, you are the person who invited violence into your home and relationship by slapping him numerous times. No, you are not at fault for his choice to hit you, yes, this is domestic abuse, and you participated.

And you're right, when a relationship gets to this point, it is just time to leave. He is mentally ill and he will physically assault you and your children to protect his hoard. The only thing you can do is get yourself and your kids out of there.

[–]solveig82 7 points8 points  (0 children)

You might also peruse r/hoarders. It’s clear he has a mental illness.

Not a good reason to stay though, he will drag you down for the rest of your days if you allow him to. Please be safe and call a dv organization, they can support you emotionally, outline a safety plan, and perhaps help you with other resources if that’s a route you want to take

[–]CrazyCatLushie 6 points7 points  (0 children)

Your preacher is a sorry excuse for a human being and so is your husband. I’m so sorry this happened and no, no one deserves this sort of thing.

That said, I don’t understand how every comment here is somehow glossing over the fact that you hit him too, which is absolutely not okay either. Obviously he hurt you significantly more and I’m not trying to justify or downplay that in any capacity, but hitting people - no matter how hard or for whatever reason - is not okay. You were also violent in this scenario and were pretty quick to gloss over that detail.

You both need to get away from each other and into therapy to process how on earth you got to this point. Both of you need to be able to say “This is getting too heated and we both need to cool off before we discuss it further”.

I also want to mention as a person with both autism and ADHD (and at the risk of getting downvoted into oblivion or being accused of excusing his behaviour) that your husband has some pretty obvious signs of neurodivergence from my perspective and should probably be assessed by a professional. In NO WAY would that excuse ANY of this, but it might explain the collectibles addiction and the (wholly unacceptable) violent meltdown they caused here.

Seriously please get yourselves to safety away from one another and do some reflection.

[–]Absinthe_gaze 4 points5 points  (0 children)

You shouldn’t have hit him and he should t have hit you. You’re both wrong. Leave this man and get therapy. He shouldn’t be throwing out your kids toys, especially yo make room for his own. If he wants that many toys, then maybe he should buy a house big enough to tactfully store them all.

[–]MixWitch 16 points17 points  (1 child)

You need to read "Why Does He Do That?" by Lundy Bancroft. The link is a free pdf. It is time to make a plan and get away. It will not get better, your husband has no interest in doing or being better. If he wanted to, he would. He actively refuses to do things that would help him not be a cruel abusive partner. You children will be getting this from him too, if they aren't already.

You are seeing with clarity what this situation is. Do not let people with ulterior motives convince you to stay with an abuser.

[–]TinySparklyThings 16 points17 points  (1 child)

This is not your fault. Your husband is emotionally and now physically abusive. For your safety and that of your children, you must leave. Your pastor does not have your best interests at heart, he is trying to protect your husband and the patriarchal hierarchy of the church.

THIS IS NOT YOUR FAULT. YOU DO NOT DESERVE THIS. YOU DESERVE A HOME YOU CAN ACTUALLY LIVE IN AND A SPOUSE YOU ARE NOT AFRAID OF.

[–]yagirlsamess 10 points11 points  (1 child)

I took pastoral counseling classes 17 years ago and one of the first lessons drilled into our heads was to NEVER do what your preacher did. It's reckless and abusive and was considered midieval almost 2 decades ago.

Girl, I'm so excited for how good your life is going to get once both of these asses are in your rearview ❤️

[–]BiCumSlut69420 12 points13 points  (0 children)

Rage bait

[–]ResurrectedWolf 20 points21 points  (2 children)

There is no hate like Christian love. Don't listen to the preacher. Also, your husband doesn't like you, either. He only likes what you can do for him. Leave him.

Edit: Switched "hate" and "love" because I had them backwards.

[–]Chapsticklover 11 points12 points  (1 child)

Did his bite break the skin? Human mouths are very dirty. Please consult a doctor if it did.

[–]ThornyRascal 10 points11 points  (0 children)

Trust your gut and get away from him. Even the toy collecting alone--without the horrific physical abuse--is enough of a reason. Why should you expose yourself and your children to someone who "cant control" himself? Please leave. 

[–]recyclopath_ 5 points6 points  (0 children)

You know you can't raise children in a home with this man. Your children are young and small. Imagine as they get bigger. Imagine how he will react when one of them accidentally damages a toy of his?

What about how you're now afraid of him? How you aren't going to be comfortable pushing back against him. Because you know what he is willing and capable of.

Life cannot get better while you are with this man.

[–]Liz600 4 points5 points  (1 child)

Others have already answer your questions many times over, so I’ll skip giving the same answers. I just have other question I’d suggest asking yourself, if you aren’t sure that abusing you is enough reason to leave (it is, for the record; the monster literally bit you): what happens when one of your children damages one of his treasures? They’re everywhere, easily accessible, many are likely delicate, and toddlers are chaos incarnate. Think about how badly he hurt you in his rage, and now picture how much more physical damaging that same abuse would be to a child.

You and your kids deserve better. 

[–]Belatryx84 4 points5 points  (0 children)

I once had a good friend go to a pastor instead of a marriage counselor. She had caught her husband of 6 months in the shower with another woman. The pastor told her it was her fault for not satisfying him and that she needs to hold God in her heart. She suffered through 8 more years of his cheating and abuse and had two kids with him before she finally had enough and left.

Don't waste any more of your time. Pastors are not marriage counselors. Be an example for your kids and get out.

[–]sanityjanity 12 points13 points  (0 children)

Your husband has physically, emotionally, and financially abused you. He has a severe mental illness that is making life for you and your children unlivable. The preacher is no friend to suggest that somehow *you* are responsible for his mental illness, let alone the fact that he assaulted you.

  1. you are not responsible for being hit

  2. yes this is domestic abuse

  3. the preacher believes that keeping a marriage together is more important than your safety. Welcome to the patriarchy.

  4. Perhaps, maybe, an incredibly intensive course of mental health care would change things, but I doubt it. You do not have to file for divorce, but you need to talk to the domestic violence folks about making a plan to move out.

You know this. You know all of this. you know this is not right for you or your children. You deserve enough room in your own home to store your belongings. Your children deserve enough room in their home to exist and play.

And none of you deserves to be assaulted.

[–]B19F00T 8 points9 points  (0 children)

in addition to everyone else, go to the police

[–]aztenjin 25 points26 points  (2 children)

Oh I am going to get so much hate for this,

Everybody calling the husband an abusive pos, but totally glossing over the fact that she struck first

Where’s the abusive comments towards her?

[–][deleted] 5 points6 points  (0 children)

listen there are very, very, VERY few circumstances in which it's anyone's "fault" they were the victim of violence.

initiating violence is one of those circumstances. Sorry OP. you didn't deserve to be physically hit by your spouse but neither did he.

[–]voodoobunny999 19 points20 points  (0 children)

This. No hitting. Nobody hit anybody else unless you’re ready to get hit back. Don’t hit people. Don’t stand for being hit, but don’t hit someone in anger then be angry because you got hit back.

[–]_enthusiasticconsent 13 points14 points  (0 children)

Well, you slapped him in the chest and threw his toy away, then he bit, scratched, and punched you. He overreacted, to an extreme and bizarre degree. No, what he is did is not okay (neither is how you handled it, but his response is way out of control). Yes, I recommend you leave him, preferably BEFORE having two of his offspring. Document everything, take pictures of all the injuries, and file for divorce from him ASAP, citing abuse as the reason, and apply for full custody of the kids to protect them from him. I hope he has a fun time selling off his hoard to pay for child support and alimony. Also, your preacher sucks and it seems like he doesn't think women are people. I've met a few of those before - do NOT let him gaslight you into forgetting your worth. You do not deserve this.

Side note: this is not a diagnosis, but your husband's behavior sounds autistic to me (I assume he was never assessed as you appear to live in a religious area, but if you have autism you have autism whether or not you are diagnosed). The type of reaction you describe can pop up if you get between an autistic person and their special interest. This is not an excuse, I just wanted to let you know because autism is largely hereditary. Please keep an eye on your kids and get them an assessment/ support services promptly to keep them from turning into this guy when they grow up.

[–]Otherwise-Earth7047 3 points4 points  (0 children)

No matter who is hitting who, hitting is unacceptable in marriage.

[–]alliedeluxe 4 points5 points  (0 children)

Whoa, start planning your exit. Get a lawyer.

[–]RunnerGirlT 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Girl… GET.OUT.NOW!

You have a mentally unstable husband and a church rooted in keeping women small and trapped for the benefit of men.

Get a good therapist and heal yourself, but get out

[–]FissionStorm 4 points5 points  (1 child)

1. You are absolutely NOT responsible for your husbands inability to properly manage his own body, emotions and actions

2. Yes. You would be calling it what it is

3. As someone who hasnt been around congregation in many years (and possibly a different denomination), there might be some genuine well wishes in their words. Sadly, this reads to me like run-of-the-mill “just be a good wife and suck it up” type of response.

4. My rule of thumb is if for even a second your sense of trust/safety around your partner lapses, its time for scrutiny of your compatibility but if its bad enough your seeking outside advice, id wager if you do stay, its going to be rocky for a long

Speaking as a kid of parents who ‘stuck it out to 18’. Dont do that to your kids. If you love your husband or want things to work, no matter how wrong he is, you may need to be able to forgive him (im not saying you should, i wouldnt) but be firm in holding him as responsible. Couples therapy for both yall, solo therapy for his hoarding

As an aside, im a pretty avid model/figure collector so i felt there was a possibility id empathize with your husband but frankly i just dont. If its his hobby, great, it can stay in his spaces that are for just him. I have a crap ton personally in storage because i just dont have the display space in my room for them. Sure, theres a layer regarding like property ownership and whatnot but frankly it just doesnt matter. It sounds to me like it should never have gotten to this point before. If he doesnt appreciate being talked to about the problem, why isnt HE working to solve by buying a bigger house?

[–]WeAreClouds 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Good grief I’m just SO GLAD every damn day I’m not religious. Yikes! This is all so awful. You deserve to actually live your own life the way you want! Instead you are dealing with the horrible ppl. I hope you get away from all of them and religion. Be happy.

[–]Mactwentynine 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Husband needs professional help. You are not in a safe or "normal" situation and need to work on separation for the sake of your kids. Preacher is a spineless worm. Basically no you are not the problem. You are the solution. Absolutely is abuse. Preachers can be self-centered careerists who need to grow the congregation and coffers. And may have nasty habits themselves like preying on women. Counseling may help avoid a total break but offhand I'd say Hubby is looney and a fresh start could be the best thing you ever do.

[–]MrBPrice 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Quote (from you): "I can’t raise my children in a home where violence is ever considered an option."

Also a quote from you:  "I lost it. I slapped his chest a few times out of frustration."

I don't know what you should do about your marriage, but I don't think you have room to look down on your husband considering your own behavior.

[–]darforce 2 points3 points  (0 children)

The preacher sounds like he was projecting.

Your husband is a child and your duty of care is to the children you gave birth to. File for divorce, file assault charges on him, take a few days and record his entire hoard of toys, find out the value and when you split assets hopefully that will be his share.

He

[–]QuickAsAKoala 2 points3 points  (0 children)

I’m going to say something potentially unpopular. But also, OP, you hit your husband too. This absolutely does NOT excuse his reaction and his attack was still domestic violence and abuse. I only point this out because it is further reason for divorce. Do you want to be a person that also turns to violence when you get frustrated/angry? The stress of your living situation is effecting your reactions too and that is not healthy for you or your children. Get out now.

But regardless of what you said or did, this is not your fault. And no, there is no turning back. Take yourself and your children and get somewhere safe. You can rebuild and live a happy life, a life where you have space in your home and your children won’t worry that their father will throw away their belongings to make space for his hoard. A life where you and your children are safe from the physical, mental, and emotional abuse you are facing now.

[–]PleasantYesterday671 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Leave.

If your kids told you this story what would you say? Your kids who were abused by their partner?

[–]No-Yak2005 3 points4 points  (0 children)

How many of these do you need? 🚩🚩🚩. I so hope you get out and get help. You deserve better my dear.

[–]OkTension2232 4 points5 points  (0 children)

So you hit him, he hit you, you claim domestic abuse?

You should leave him because he's clearly got issues anyway, but don't pretend like you didn't do anything here either.

[–]Boisemeateater 1 point2 points  (0 children)

You better get those kids away from that man before he beats the shit out of them

[–]VibrantIndigo 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Even before he hit you, he was abusing you. You describe verbal abuse. And blaming you for having two children??!!

And your pastor is an abuser-enabler.

[–]SquidPearls 3 points4 points  (0 children)

if it's "justified" for him to bite you because he got mad at you throwing away his toys, considering this:

kids fuck up all the time. if he's got his stuff in the livingroom, where your kids play, they're probably going to break his things at least once. is he going to 'lose control' and bite them? leave bruises on them?

look, as a former child, i'd get mad. but if i ever bit my siblings, i'd get in trouble. he is a 36 year old man, and he should be able to control himself enough to not hurt his goddamn wife like he's a rabid racoon. leave the fuckwad.

[–]sianvanes 3 points4 points  (0 children)

  1. Not your fault. He has mental and spiritual issues and that pastor is a fraud. Get another pastor, a Bible believing one with discernment. Hoarding and his behaviour is an indication that he has spiritual issues. He needs deliverance but that’s for someone with authority to do and he has to want it. Otherwise it will get worse.
  2. This is domestic abuse in many ways. Not just physical but psychological and controlling. No he will not get better if you stay. It will validate his behaviour so the only thing that you can do is leave. It is not safe for you and your children.
  3. The preacher has other priorities. Appeasing his mother. He’s a man pleaser not a man of God. Having the form of righteousness.Matthew 23:27 Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! For you are like whitewashed tombs which indeed appear beautiful outwardly, but inside are full of dead men’s bones and all uncleanness. Something is definitely off. Find a true believing church.
  4. You don’t have a marriage when he prioritises his fettishes over you and makes this an unsafe place. When you said TIL death us do part it does not mean him murdering you.

[–]null640 4 points5 points  (0 children)

RUN!!!!

[–]KingKoopaBrowser 4 points5 points  (0 children)

Uhh. If this is how he acts to his wife when a toy is thrown in the trash but probably still fine.. is he going to hurt your children when they inevidently open some up to play with them?

This is such a huge red flag 🚩 and personally I’d say protect the kids and divorce. I think it’s that serious.

[–]1Hydrangea 3 points4 points  (0 children)

What kind of fucking man-toddler “loses control” over a toy?! He can take it out of the trash if it’s that big of a deal. Your husband basically told you that toys are more important to him than you are. You deserve better.

[–]one_little_victory_ 4 points5 points  (0 children)

Please leave both the loser asshole and the church.

[–]LaLizarde 3 points4 points  (0 children)

You might consider outing the preacher to other women in the congregation as a domestic abuse apologist.

[–]bread0822 12 points13 points  (0 children)

Did he deserve you to slap him repeatedly out of frustration?

Thats really the question you should ask yourself, if you're questioning responsibility, culpability, deservability ...

No one should have put their hands on anyone. Its pretty clear you were both wholly wrong.

Both are victims of each other's anger and unmecessary violence, and you both were wrong.