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second attempt at using couchsurfing ended with male host trying to SA me again (self.TwoXChromosomes)

submitted by LivePanda7804

why can men never just be normal? it's supposed to be about sharing and kindness etc

instead all male hosts seem to use it as a hookup app at best and a funnel to select rape victims at worst

well my lesson has been learned

even mixed gender low cost hostels men will try to get into your room at night

I'm so fucking sick of living in a world with men why are they always trying to rape women

imagine a world where we didn't have to constantly protect ourselves, guard against them etc

hashtag notallmen before the whining starts

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[–]unreelectable 848 points849 points  (29 children)

I've only used couchsurfing in large cities and picked hosts with lots of positive references, so I mostly had a good experience on the app, but I still had 3 different hosts hit on me (I declined and that was that.)

My issue with couchsurfing is that you always feel like you owe them something. I try to bring little presents or do their dishes, but a lot of hosts mention guests making them full meals or buying them fancy wine as a thank you, and that's always awkward to hear. Even with the best hosts, you can never shake the feeling that you're intruding in their home.

[–]Ambiorix33 292 points293 points  (3 children)

Im.hoenstly surprised the whole thing made it this far without becoming a SA/murder app...

Though from wayt OP says it might be becoming that already

[–]LivePanda7804[S] 215 points216 points  (1 child)

I went down a research rabbit hole and it seems SA is way more common than people realise on the app but women are reluctant to report it because they don't want to be called liars.

[–]Apprehensive_Rain500 80 points81 points  (0 children)

Apps also lie about it because it's bad for business. Uber buried half a million reports of sexual assault over a 5-year period. And those are just the women who reported.

[–]bely_medved13 19 points20 points  (0 children)

At this point it's essentially a hookup app. I went back to Europe in 2016 and the site as I knew it in the early 10s was basically dead. the only people who responded to host requests clearly wanted to hook up, many recent host reviews were from guests who *also* clearly were in it to hook up, and I no longer felt comfortable using it. The also monetized a variety of popular features, so it wasn't user friendly anymore. I would love if there was a non-exploitative network for this type of cultural exchange travel that had safety measures in place for women, but I think it's a hard sell for those who want to monetize everything on the internet.

[–]Myjunkisonfire 124 points125 points  (1 child)

I’m amazed at how many guests bring me gifts, and offer to cook food. It’s truely lovely and I wouldn’t expect it. Whenever I’m travelling I often see things in their house that I can fix pretty easy and ask if they want it done (leaking tap, squeaky door,cupboards, looses screws etc).

[–]nasbyloonions 195 points196 points  (12 children)

Holy molly guys. The only time I couchsurfed was with two guys and I had an amazing experience.

Because they were apparently a gay couple!  I loved staying with them. And in the evening, we freakin watched The Room together. They were chill fun dudes in Odense.

Thanks for reminding me of the other side. OP’s stuff is horrible

[–]arentwealwayssunny 42 points43 points  (2 children)

I did not HIT HER! I did nawwwwt...

[–]nasbyloonions 6 points7 points  (0 children)

Hahah

I dunno, maybe it is something about his voice. It is a top line.

[–]MusoukaMX 22 points23 points  (4 children)

OH HI MARK

[–]nasbyloonions 15 points16 points  (2 children)

Weird, how did you include audio and video in your comment? I didn’t even press anything

[–]CaptainPhilosophy 5 points6 points  (1 child)

Hi doggie

[–]nasbyloonions 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Just googled it. It is so typically The Room. Love it

[–]Belatryx84 0 points1 point  (0 children)

So anyway, how's your sex life?

[–]TargetTheReavers 7 points8 points  (0 children)

You’re tearing me apart, Lisa!

[–]Triviten 8 points9 points  (2 children)

You’re lying, I never hit you

[–]nasbyloonions 4 points5 points  (1 child)

The next line seemed to literally be “why are you so hysterical?!” Lmfao

[–]Triviten 0 points1 point  (0 children)

“Do you even understand life?”

[–]corporatewazzack 95 points96 points  (6 children)

You guys are going into random people’s homes to sleep? That seems completely insane to me.

[–]Xeltar 13 points14 points  (0 children)

I have a friend who traveled a lot on her own about a decade ago and would do this all the time for visiting new places. Definitely would concern me but she's told me nothing but good experiences with it. And in some ways I guess if a stranger really wants to harm you they always can find a way.

[–]AngrySc13ntist 3 points4 points  (0 children)

I am a super host in a major US city, and I never ask for gifts or expect anything beyond the standard couch surfing interaction (chat, maybe hang out together if there's time). I actively ask people not to get me gifts, but some insist, and then in that case I'll have them make a meal or buy me a beer.

If they're hosting on CS, you're not supposed to owe them anything.

[–]kearnel81 2 points3 points  (1 child)

If someone offered to do my dishes. They can have my bed and I will take the sofa. Lol

[–]TotallyAMermaid 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Too real 😂

[–]Traditional-Good3583 626 points627 points  (6 children)

Hi, I'm very sorry, thanks for making this post, just yesterday I had half an idea of ​​applying for a couchsurfing job, but now that I've talked about this dynamic I really don't think about it!

[–]LivePanda7804[S] 247 points248 points  (1 child)

thanks for your words. you could still consider it but only at places run by women or at least by a couple. stay safe

[–]Fizzbit 94 points95 points  (1 child)

What is a couch surfing "job"?

[–]ShesSoViolet 21 points22 points  (0 children)

I imagine you get paid to allow people to sleep on your couch. Like air b&b, but even more insanely dangerous and vaguely illegal.

[–]AdiPalmer 435 points436 points  (10 children)

I'm so sorry these assholes have done this to you.

I had great experiences with couchsurfing in the early 2010, until I didn't. One night I woke up to my host sexually assaulting me. I managed to fight him off and convince him to just go to sleep, which he did. Once I was sure he was out, I took all of his spices, lots of pretty colorful, permanent-staining ones btw, mixed them in a big bowl with oil, and then threw it all over his white couches and expensive rug and curtains. Then I took a knife and slashed every single cushion in the living room. I also unplugged his decorative lamps and cut the cords off, then I left. I felt much safer on the park bench where I spent the next 4 hours freezing.

When I arrived at my next host's place in a different city later that day, he turned out to be amazing and incredibly respectful, and he was a great help when the rapist started harrassing me via text saying he was going to call the police on me for property damage. I told my new host what I had done and he just laughed and said that unless he could show a recording of me doing it, the police could do nothing, and in the unlikely case that he could provide footage, it would only make it worse for him if I pressed charges for rape or sexual assault. When he wouldn't stop my new host called him and offered to meet up and go together to the police station, and the rapist finally backed off.

I later left an explicit review on the asshole's profile and he replied rather rudely, but soon enough I started seeing other reviews from other women appearing, claiming the same. He deactivated his account a few days later.

Now, if my new host hadn't been the person he was and I had found myself in the clutches of another predator, I don't know what I would've done.

Stay strong OP, and do take care of yourself, but don't let them win. Don't let the bastards grind you down and make you afraid of living your life to the fullest.

[–]trenixjetix 101 points102 points  (1 child)

Love this nuclear one. hugs. 

[–]AdiPalmer 53 points54 points  (0 children)

Thanks for the hugs!

As I mentioned in my reply to OP, I only did it because I was literally going out the door right that second. It's important to keep one's safety in mind, but holy shit don't I wish I could use the nuclear option more often.

[–]You are now doing kegelsDancesWithWeirdos 34 points35 points  (1 child)

Nicely done, I think it's important to remind people that fucking with a stranger can be dangerous, keeps the assholes on their toes.

[–]LivePanda7804[S] 65 points66 points  (4 children)

thank you so much, this thoughtful comment means a lot <3

I absolutely LOVE what you did as revenge against that creep

and I'm so sorry you were assaulted by him

[–]AdiPalmer 59 points60 points  (3 children)

Thanks. It was mostly impulse but I decided to do it because I was literally walking out the door right after that and new I would be safe from him. I'm not encouraging people to do this, but.... Just be mindful of your exits, lol.

I mean, if they see us as disposable property, why not mess with the property they value more than they do us? Again, I'm NOT saying to go and do it, I'm only explaining my though process here of course... I promise. Scouts honor!

Big hug to you OP!

[–]SandboxUniverse 22 points23 points  (2 children)

Plus, his house won't look nearly so tempting for a couch surfer if it's got weird, oily stains, slashed cushions, etc. I wonder if you thought of that at the time.

[–]AdiPalmer 43 points44 points  (1 child)

Well, he was in Belgium for work. He worked in finance and felt like a hotshot for it, so he went and rented a fully furnished apartment at a premium, in an expensive area. He even bragged about how large of a deposit he had to put down for it, so yes, yes I thought about that deposit he was going to lose one way or another because everything I destroyed he didn't own, but he'd still have to replace it. One of my proudest moments, ngl.

But yes, that too, it does help that he no longer had a couch to offer to any other unsuspecting victims

[–]BB-Zwei 5 points6 points  (0 children)

I think you just became my hero.

[–]Pixie_the_Fairy 15 points16 points  (0 children)

Don't let the bastards grind you down

❤️

[–]bely_medved13 85 points86 points  (12 children)

OP, I'm sorry this happened to you. I didn't realize the couchsurfing website was still around. I had mostly great experiences with it when I was traveling Europe as an au pair in 2012-2013, but ended up getting in a sort of sketchy situation with a guy I was staying with in Italy. He didn't SA me, but it became clear that he wanted to hook up during my first night/share a bed with me for the duration of my stay and I wasn't comfortable. A very kind woman who hadn't been able to host me volunteered to be an emergency contact in that town because she had traveled solo a lot in her youth and wanted to be a resource for women. I called her frantically asking if she knew of any decent hostels or affordable hotels because I didn't feel safe in the place I was staying. She found a friend (an older lady with daughters who worked in fashion) who had hosted exchange students and I got to couch surf with her and with another one of her friends, which was a young air traffic controller and his awesome wife and toddler.

So it worked out and it ended up being a good experience, but it was a lesson in extreme caution for me. I thought I had been careful. This guy lived with his elderly parents, who were sweet as can be. From that point forward, I only couchsurfed with female hosts, and when they were not available I stayed in hostels with all female dorm rooms. It's a little pricier, but worth it for the peace of mind. I stopped using couchsurfing for anything other than the occasional meetup group around 2015, when the only responses I got were from men who clearly were using it as a hookup site. It's a shame, because I really felt that it allowed me to see a side of the culture I wouldn't have otherwise and I enjoy the social/cultural exchange component. I would love to see specific groups for women!

[–]groucho_barks 33 points34 points  (11 children)

This is the first time I'm hearing about this app and it sounds wild to me. People really are ok just sleeping on some total random stranger's couch?

[–]bely_medved13 11 points12 points  (0 children)

It was very popular as a shoestring travel option in the late 00s and early 10s. It was around the same time meetup.com was popular and Airbnb/the gig economy concept was getting off the ground and was heavily marketed to the backpacking/hostel crowd as a way of getting a cultural exchange when traveling. As a former exchange student, I found that more appealing than staying in hostels, and for the most part it was. However, when you're in your 20s and on a tiny travel budget, it's very easy to be naive about safety. I thought I had a safe strategy, because I almost exclusively stayed with women and families, but my experience in Italy was a wake up call. I learned not to stay with male hosts, even if they were "superhosts" with great reviews, or even if they lived with older parents (common in some countries). I also learned to find emergency contacts in the cities where I was staying and to have a list of back-up hostels if I didn't feel comfortable where I was staying.

I personally don't regret traveling that way because I met some amazing people who showed me things I wouldn't have seen otherwise, but I also wouldn't recommend it to my younger female cousins as a way to travel affordably anymore. I just don't trust the safety after what happened to me (and that guy did back off when I said no) and the subsequent changes to the website.

[–]angelamia 134 points135 points  (2 children)

Weirdly posting about this for a second time today, but if you still want to travel with the couchsurfing vibe check out the facebook group Host A Sister. I’ve honestly never used it but 2 friends of mine have used it all over the world with no issues, even delightful experiences

[–]LivePanda7804[S] 36 points37 points  (1 child)

thanks so much for this suggestion! I'll take a look, it sounds great

[–]anotherdanishgirl 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Theres also a website called nomad sister, which is similar. They allow men among hosts/guests, but only as a partner to a female host/guest.

I think I have it in my host profile that my male dog isn't the best at respecting personal space, but luckily he's very cute.

[–]Milky-Way-Occupant 55 points56 points  (0 children)

Oh wow, what a concept. To think of a world without SA and femicide. 😭

[–]Dizzy_Sort4887 25 points26 points  (1 child)

I feel like couchsurfing is this generations hitchhiking and that didn’t go well for a lot of women. 

[–]Sparrowsabre7 14 points15 points  (1 child)

This was a big issue when the war in Ukraine started and the UK started accepting refugees. A lot of single men volunteered their homes with the hope/expectation of getting vulnerable women to sleep with.

[–]LivePanda7804[S] 7 points8 points  (0 children)

disgusting

[–]snamerino 28 points29 points  (0 children)

I had this happening with a girl in my city back in 2012/2013! She texted me if I could host her for 2 days and I took a while to reply and when I did she told me that she had another person hosting her.

Around 2am she messages me through couchsurfing asking if I could pick her up because the house where she was at was totally different from the description and she was basically sharing a room with 2 single beds with the guy that is hosting her and after midnight he started suggesting moving both beds closer which she declined but was feeling very uncomfortable. I grabbed another friend, in case the guy tried to make her stay or something, and went to her location. She was safe and in front of the building and I ended up hosting her. Hard for me, as a man, to understand how scary it must be and the fact that one bad experience like this can change a Women’s view of this app and to trust random men to host them.

[–]flyraccoon 61 points62 points  (5 children)

That’s why we need rape-x to come back and sell everywhere on earth

For them to be scared to even try

[–]bely_medved13 21 points22 points  (0 children)

Agreed 100%! I went to Wikipedia to verify that rape-x was the same device I had read about and was depressed to read this rather typical reason that it never took off:

There have been objections to Ehlers' invention, describing it as "vengeful, horrible, and disgusting" and its planned sale in pharmacies has been opposed.

Like male birth control and so many other things women have asked for to stay safe, we get these hand-wringing, hysterical responses from men who are worried about their comfort and safety. No one is worried about women's comfort and safety, except when they use it as an excuse to police our bodies. I think it's time to buy hatpins and organize some revolutionary"knitting circles".

[–]fuckReddi7 19 points20 points  (2 children)

I know so many people who would buy this, you'd think capitalism would do it's thing...

[–]DanglingKeyChain 22 points23 points  (1 child)

Capitalism is doing its thing, some people somewhere don't like it so it's been snuffed.

[–]Ok_Elevator8958 7 points8 points  (0 children)

Yeah, it's frustrating how some ideas get shut down before they even have a chance. If only there was more support for solutions that could genuinely help people feel safer.

[–]LivePanda7804[S] 10 points11 points  (0 children)

yes you are correct

[–]Joy2b 27 points28 points  (0 children)

Yikes. What the bloody shit. Please dump that info on the local police tip line. If his next guest calls, they’ll have some idea there’s a real problem.

[–]arschl_cher 52 points53 points  (1 child)

I find most men scary and alot of them are rapists who see women as sexobjects. And some people would say that is hurtful to men and not all men. But then when you are in this situation the rapists and people will say yeah what did you expect sleeping on a strangers couch. It is crazy. 

[–]DeathCab4Cutie 27 points28 points  (0 children)

It’s like yeah, sure, most men aren’t violent active serial rapists… but a hell of a lot of them are opportunistic rapists. Maybe they won’t break in, kidnap you, and murder you in a forest, but if you happen to pass out drunk alone with them, it’s a different story. Both kinds are predatory monsters.

[–]lyghtmyfyre[🍰] 17 points18 points  (1 child)

That's really sad to know! 

Some suggestions for solo female couchsurfers:

1) Check the host's reviews. If he only host's women or majority of the guests are women, then he is hoping to get laid. Some may be timid, some direct, and some not even hesitate to assault, but if the guy only hosts women, then you know what's up. Know the risk beforehand! 

2) How's the host's housing situation? Does he live alone? Do you have to sleep in the same room? Does he have flatmates/family living in the same house? How far away from the civilization does he live? Do you have a backup plan just in case your guts tell you to leave at some point? 

I would say that if you have to accept a single male's hosting offer, make sure that you will sleep in a different room and that there are other people in the house ( hopefully women or family situation). Take a note of nearby hotels/bars where you could go take refuge just in case you need to escape. 

[–]LivePanda7804[S] 5 points6 points  (0 children)

I do know these common sense principles but I was in a situation where beggars can't be choosers unfortunately

[–]Kithslayer 19 points20 points  (1 child)

Couchsurfing has been a cesspool of predators for the last 15+ years; I'm shocked it still exists.

I had a very similar experience last time I used it (back in 2012) after years of using it issue free in the 2000s.

[–]LivePanda7804[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

I am so sorry you experienced that! God it makes me so angry!

[–]RAK-47 7 points8 points  (0 children)

Ugh. That's so shit. I'm so sorry.

[–]_JIMtheCAT_ 6 points7 points  (1 child)

That fucking sucks and I'm sorry that's something you have to deal with regularly.

A lot of dudes just don't think of other people as being "individuals" the same way they are. The thought that another person wouldn't like what they're doing doesn't occur to them unless they get in trouble for it. Even then they're upset that they're experiencing consequences rather than anything resembling empathy.

[–]LivePanda7804[S] 4 points5 points  (0 children)

thank you very much for your kind and perceptive comment.

I agree that sadly I think it genuinely does not occur to some men that women are real human beings on the same level as they are. they seem to forget we have an internal life and intelligence. they seem to forget we have agency. and that in this context we don't exist just to please them sexually. we are human too, we have a mind up there, we are capable of great feats of intelligence, bravery, creativity. I genuinely think that some men see women as like cats or dogs and don't realise that we are the same species as them. this is getting worse with the rise of anti-women alt-right hate online.

[–]Outside_Memory5703 80 points81 points  (5 children)

Like hitchhiking, this just seems like a bad idea all around

Especially if the app isn’t liable

[–]PewPewthashrew 40 points41 points  (1 child)

Agreed. These type of arrangements are just ripe for exploitation and harm bein done to the most vulnerable women. If there was a setting for women to request only other women hosts I might view it different.

[–]LivePanda7804[S] 4 points5 points  (0 children)

there is that setting it's just that very few women host relative to men. I tried requesting women first but none were available

[–]LivePanda7804[S] 14 points15 points  (0 children)

of course but not everyone comes from financial privilege, has a family etc so sometimes you cut corners. obviously users would pay for hotels if money weren't an issue

[–]LivePanda7804[S] 15 points16 points  (1 child)

just think through the sensitivity levels of telling someone recovering from an SA attempt 2 hours ago "it was a bad idea for you to go there".

I know. you may have privileges like not being orphaned young etc. that mean you always have a safe space to stay. but not all of us are like that.

try to not imply the sexual assault victim did something to invite or be blamed for the assault.

[–]Outside_Memory5703 67 points68 points  (0 children)

I am sorry and you are not responsible, but I am against this app existing because it provides a false sense of security/accountability

[–]Roadgoddess 22 points23 points  (3 children)

Couch surfing has changed a lot in the last few years and if you visit the r/couchsurfing sub, what you’re experiencing is happening not just to women, but to men as well. It seems like people that have stuck with this are using it as a hook up app.

[–]-40- 23 points24 points  (0 children)

It had its moments in the past but has ALWAYS had this element. There is such a power imbalance from the start that it attracts the wrong kinds of people.

I remember a famous host in Venice with 100s of negative reviews which still constantly hosted a stream of desperate backpackers as they had an amazing waterfront apartment in the heart of Venice. He would walk a round naked, no doors on any rooms, make people wrestle the other guests amongst more problematic issues. People should go through this and at the end say “Yes he was creepy but the place and location was amazing”.

[–]LivePanda7804[S] 10 points11 points  (1 child)

I made a post about this yesterday there and immediately got mocked by multiple men in that sub. To the point that I had to delete the post. Multiple men were saying "How are you defining rape, flirting?" and "He probably winked at her". So tired of how evil men are, both the perpetrators and the ones who gaslight afterwards.

[–]LivePanda7804[S] 8 points9 points  (0 children)

just fyi: when someone is venting about a sexual assault attempt in a women's community, they're looking for sympathy, kindness and support

they're not looking for victim blaming, "what were you wearing" or "why did you go there"

how you react to sa victims can retraumatise them or it can heal them. too many people going with the first option here

[–]4toTwenty 3 points4 points  (0 children)

My coworkers and i were just having a conversation about traveling. John was talking about his solo European trip back when he was in school, and Mary and I just looked at each other and were like “ha, i could never” and we watched as John’s face changed as he realized that he’s never had to worry about that before.

I’m so sorry this has happened to you. It’s not fair.

[–]tacs97 8 points9 points  (1 child)

The men never left the cave. I’m embarrassed as a man how my fellow men citizens act around women. Talk about dr jekyll and Mr Hyde level shit.

[–]LivePanda7804[S] 2 points3 points  (0 children)

thank you friend

[–]ShesSoViolet 4 points5 points  (0 children)

Its not all men, and its not always men, but 94% of the time, its a man.

I have been raped/sexually assaulted 4 times. All men.

Never once have I even been remotely close to having anything like that happen from a woman. Men can scream about how "ahckchully the statistics for women preditors is underrepresented" all they like, it doesnt change the fact that almost every women I have ever met has at least one unwanted sexual experience due to a man.

And before you call me a man hater, I have 2 lovely male partners that I absolutely trust and adore. But I went for bisexual men specifically, as they know first hand what its like for men to refuse to listen.

men have a rape problem. Its socially ingrained so deeply that "most rapists don't even believe their actions count as rape. They consider themselves ' nice guys who maybe went a little too far, but not a rapist!'"

For as long as men deny the rape issue, things will not improve.

Its all tied to the patriarchy, how they feel that sexual partners are their property. Trans people , bi guys, and gay guys all know first hand how often this happens. They know how often men will "joke" about underaged women.

Once, before my transition, a man saw a 14 yr old girl in our workplace and began staring her up and down sexually. He turned to me and said: "oh wow, look at her! She's dressed to get raped!" I was horrified, and he thought I was weird for calling him a creep! I reported him to the manager (also a man) who said he would handle it. I figured since they had video and audio of the event, it would be easy for them to deal with him. Instead, he was simply told by the boss not to talk about it at work. No punishment. I asked the manager about it, he claimed he "handled it". Huh? Hes still trying to rape 14 year olds, you just let him??????

Dont let them lie to you, men know its rape, they even call it rape when they think women cant hear them. They only pretend it was an accident when they get called out on it.

[–]Benny_The_Butcher 8 points9 points  (2 children)

And then they decided to elect someone accused of it, 26 times!

[–]LivePanda7804[S] 6 points7 points  (1 child)

sad to watch what's happening to america (I am from europe). the culture leads from the top. I'm watching what the lack of kindness is doing to people's housing, food benefits too now.

[–]Benny_The_Butcher 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Yeah, it sucks. If I had the money, I would leave.

[–]edamamebeano 4 points5 points  (2 children)

I couchsurfed for a year between 2013-2015, and I learned 2 things: 1. They always try to get you to fuck them by either making you feel guilty or getting emotionally close. 2. If you tell them upfront that you are having the experience that the host all try to bed you and lay it on thick : im so thankful you're different, I feel very safe here. You would never touch a woman without them explicitly telling you they want you. 3. Nobody ever sees themselves as a bad guy. Unstead they make this parallel universe where you actually want them. So if you vocalise what's happening: i just told you I just want to sleep and am not interested, are you somebody who touches women when they dont want it? They stopped. Only one continued in prague, he climbed in my bed at night and i had to start screaming and stayed awake/left asap. I had the same experience as above that I called a guy that I met that evening and asked if I could stay at his place. That dude became my life long friend and I visited him on his bachelor.

It does take some vocal assertiveness that's not for everyone, so please take it with a grain of salt. Lastly, assault is never the fault of the victim.

[–]LivePanda7804[S] 7 points8 points  (1 child)

I'm very assertive, including vocally assertive, and I'm able to talk myself out of lots of situations, but that doesn't work against some sexually predatory men unfortunately.

[–]edamamebeano 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Agreed, thank you for being strong.

[–]ytman 0 points1 point  (0 children)

How does couch surfing work with an app? We had a classmate of mine going through a housing issue and let him crash in our two bedroom rental for a few weeks until he got his housing sorted.

I've been curious as to how to help people in need and this might be a way. Sounds risky for all involved though if its anonymous like this.

[–]krishenm 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Oh gosh, sorry you had through that. Couchsurfing is cooked huh?